Italian Roots and Genealogy
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Italian Roots and Genealogy
Exploring Sicilian Heritage: Echoes of Culture, Identity, and Cuisine
Apologies for the first few minutes of echo, it clears up.
Reflecting on the resilience of our ancestors, this episode journeys through the vibrant narratives of Sicilian heritage and its cultural echoes in the Italian-American communities across the United States. Join us as we hear from Francesca and Manuel, whose roots connect them to Gela, Sicily, with Manuel sharing his role in preserving Italian culture as the president of the historic Italian Athletic Club in San Francisco. We also explore Jerry's passionate involvement with the St. Joseph's Society in Boston, where cultural preservation through community events is a cornerstone of his mission. From Francesco's work in Collesano assisting Americans with discovering their Italian roots to recent legal changes in citizenship, the episode unravels the rich tapestry of shared histories and contemporary connections.
Manny recounts his father's poignant immigration journey post-World War II, a tale of resilience that complements Francesca's upbringing in Oakland, California, and her reflection on Sicilian identity. Through personal stories, we explore the biases between northern and southern Italy, giving voice to those challenging stereotypes perpetuated by media. Our conversation with Carlo Treviso dives into his novel "Siciliana," inspired by his Sicilian roots and the historical events like the 1282 Sicilian Vespers Uprising, showing how storytelling reshapes the perception of Sicily’s cultural identity.
Ending on a vibrant note, we indulge in the sensory delights of Sicilian cuisine, sharing favorite dishes that evoke memories and cultural pride. From arancini to the infamous spleen sandwich, the flavors of Sicily are a testament to the island's rich heritage. We delve into the beauty of Sicilian landscapes and the cultural exchanges that occur when contemporary Sicilian life intersects with the Italian-American experience. Art, community, and family stories become powerful tools for preserving history as we invite listeners to embrace their roots and celebrate the diverse narratives that define Sicilian and Italian-American culture.
Carlo Treviso
Francesco Curione - 007 Italian Records
SFIAC
Michael Cavalieri - Never Forget Your Roots
Artist Jean Benfante
Turnkey. The only thing you’ll lift are your spirits.
Siciliana A NovelInspired by actual events, Siciliana is the harrowing tale of a young woman’s courage.
Farmers and Nobles
Read about my research story and how to begin your family research.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
So this is Bob Sorrentino with Michael Cavalieri from our Roots and Reflections podcast, and we're going to be talking about Sicily today. So welcome guys. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having us. Thanks, guys, thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3:Thanks.
Speaker 4:Bob.
Speaker 1:And we have people from, I guess, probably about nine times or something like that.
Speaker 5:Well, let's first have everybody say hello and then give me where their family roots are from and who they are. So let's start with Francesca and Manuela.
Speaker 2:Hi, my name is Francesca Latore and our family is in Gela, sicily, which is on the southwest I'd say southwest in Sicily. My father was born there and came to the US as an adult, and this is my brother, manuel.
Speaker 4:Manuel.
Speaker 2:Ciao everyone.
Speaker 4:Nice to see everyone. Good to see you again, Michael. I love you, buddy yeah so we're out here, we're outside of us. I live outside of San Francisco, but out here we have a vibrant Italian community, as you know. We had you up here, yes sir, yes sir. We're very glad to be on your show, thank you.
Speaker 5:Well, I wanted to brag about yourself, because I can brag about you if you want, but Manny's like go ahead, manny.
Speaker 4:Tell them what you do over there. Uh, we have a, an italian athletic club that's uh 107 years old, right in the heart of san francisco best, best neighborhood in the city by far and uh, we're just about, uh almost at a thousand members and a vibrant club. We're open daily, we have events all the time and we have, you know, of course, our sports teams, like our Calcio team, won the championship again, so I got to plug those guys.
Speaker 5:All right, congratulations, thank you. And your position, sir.
Speaker 4:I'm the president of the club. Wow, I'm on my second term here.
Speaker 5:You're the boss. I answered to you when I came to San Francisco. You were the man. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for everything you did for me. By the way, my film Ritonato and La Porta Actually La Porta del Inferno was up there and, manuel, you just handled everything with grace and dignity and respect and I really appreciate you very much, sir, what you do for our culture. I appreciate you. Thank you for coming. Thank you, thank you, sir Jerry. What do we got?
Speaker 6:so my name is Jerome Jerry, my father's from Riesi, sicily, my grandfather was a worker, child worker in the sulfur mines, sicily, and, and my mother, like Michael, my mother is from a whole different part of Italy. She's from Monopoli, which is just south of Bari. So I grew up kind of taking in both of those dialects, and so when I speak Italian it's barely barely understandable.
Speaker 5:Well, I can tell you a little bit about Jerry, a little bit since he brought me to Boston to show my film. Jerry, what's the society? Is it the St Joseph's Society you're part of now.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's correct. Long-time society, and it came directly from it, was founded, actually, 100 years ago. We're going to have a. We're organizing a feast for the 100th anniversary this coming July.
Speaker 5:Wow, wow wow, and you do so much for that culture and I really appreciate you and what your passion for our Sicilian culture, italian culture, because, like Manuel and Francesca, you were so generous with your time and with me and really, really helped me and I really appreciate it. Thank you for being here. We'll talk about your story in a little bit. Francesco, what do we got? Ciao ciao for tea.
Speaker 7:I'm francesco curione. I live in sicily, the best island in the world yes, yes, yes, yes my town is called the colesano, is 10 minutes far from chevalu, 40 minutes far from palermo, and I'm so proud to be sicilian. I am a service provider, I am, I helped american to became italian. I do this with passion and I like to say most of my clients became my friend because they fall in love with this beautiful island. Season is best place in the world.
Speaker 5:Yes, it's tremendous. So, basically, you help people find their roots or you help them find their family history and you help them get citizenship.
Speaker 7:Exactly it's a mix between genealogy and citizenship, because there is a law that gives the possibility that the people who have roots from Italy to apply in the consulate or here and get an Italian passport. Wow wow, yes, yes, if you have an ancestor who was born here and emigrated to the USA or never naturalized, never became an American citizen or became an American citizen after the song gone. You have the right to get a passport and became Italian, like me, with my school right.
Speaker 5:Francesca, did they change the laws recently? I was reading some other stuff is a new law that was approved just two weeks ago the 3rd of October, but it's not really a new law.
Speaker 7:If we need to be specific, it's an interpretation of the law. I see it's you okay so two interpretations say that if your ancestor naturalized when the child was a minor, also if the child born before the naturalization is still considered naturalized like the father. So the people who are applying right now. But again, it's still a great zone situation because, you know, this is something that's gonna happen sometime when the supreme court take a decision.
Speaker 5:Right now, so you get cross because you Americans deserve to be in the tournament. Jerry, tell me a little bit about your grandfather and your father and what they did and how we met, and the history a little bit.
Speaker 6:So you know, I guess, briefly, this is something that's always been ingrained in our family history. You know, my grandparents on my father's side came here in the late 50s and you know we always heard the stories growing up of how my dad would have been about four or five years old during the bombings of Sicily and he had pretty vivid memories of all those times, you know. But my grandmother, really, really you know much like most stories like this a very strong woman. She had stories of being alone with, I think, three young boys and having to sell wine and bread at night to the American soldiers, wow, in a kind of exchange for protection and having them keep an eye on the house for and all that kind of stuff. So, um, but anyways, they came here in the late 50s and by then my grandfather was, you know, pretty, pretty well worn from his life inside the mines. Wow, I just sent bob a picture we found recently. I found recently in my grandmother's house and he would have been 15 at the time, all dressed up with some young boys and, you know, included in the picture, obviously working in the mines. You know, yep, and my dad was very passionate about you know it's funny. That's the reason I think I got hooked is he had books all over the house and he was constantly talking about the stories and showing me the books and explaining some of that stuff to me. So that's kind of how I always had that hook.
Speaker 6:I think everyone gets that. Really, the passion comes in when you get later in life. And that's where I am and you know I had come across your movie, the first one, ritonato, and we rented it and we watched it in my dad's backyard with a grapevine and all that. And then since then you had made the, the second movie. So that's when we kind of, you know, we hooked up. I reached out to you and we uh kind of started the coordination process to get it shown down in boston's north end. And what was really cool was we showed it in the basement of saint leonard's church, which is 150 year old church, I believe, built by built by the immigrants of, in large part, sicily who were denied entry into a lot of those churches in Boston. They have no place to worship, so they build their own church.
Speaker 5:Wow, wow, wow. Well, you know what. I have much respect for you and your family. As you know the film that we did and what those men and boys went through. They'll always be superheroes to me. I always will carry a piece of my heart to your family with that. It's incredible. The resiliency of those men and just Sicilian people, and Sicilian men and women in general are just very special.
Speaker 6:The last thing I'll leave you with real quick is my dad had friends all from the same hometown in South Boston. They landed. But the last thing I'll leave you with real quick is you know, my dad had friends all from the same hometown in South Boston. They landed in South Boston, which, if you don't know, south Boston, it's a very heavily Irish community like very, very insolent. And so in the late 50s, early 60s, through throughout that area was all these, you know, imagine the foods they were cooking, right, because I saw it all. But anyways, they but one of the one of the families had a really, uh, you know, tragic story in that their grandfather was actually killed in one of the explosions.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's always always in the family lore and again it's documented in these books as well sure, sure tragic yeah um carlo.
Speaker 5:We Sure Sure Tragic yeah.
Speaker 3:Carlo, we got you Gene.
Speaker 5:Holy smokes. Gene Benfanti, carlo Tenevisa. Welcome to Sicily.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 5:Oh, gene, so I'm Carl, give me a second. I wanted to Gene Benfanti, who is in Scranton, pennsylvania, only because I'm going to connect you with Jerry Gene. Gene's family is also part of the Sulphur Mines and part of that story. So, gene, just give yourself an introduction and a little bit about your family. I love you, by the way.
Speaker 8:Thanks. Well, I know 007. I can see 007 right there. I was born and raised in Lackawannaanda, county bunmore, scranton, pitston, right in the heart of anthracite coal mine, that's. That's the place um sicilian, one half, avaliano, potenza, basilicata, the other half um, and the town that I grew up in had like basically three camps from Italy it was Sicily, with San Cataldo and the south of Di Palco, and it was Gubbio and it was the other Potenza, so it was just Italians everywhere.
Speaker 5:Right right, right right.
Speaker 8:I just recently found out that my ancestors not only were they coal miners, but they started in the silver mines of Sicily. I was shocked. I had no idea that some of them actually worked the mines on both. So it was like it was learning about the sulfur mines in Sicily and La Porta del Inferno. That was like a game changer for me. So now I'm all in.
Speaker 5:Raul, you're beautiful. What a passionate song. Great artist, by the way, awesome Great artist. Wow, jean, thank you again for taking me to Scranton, letting me come there and present my film. Wow, gene gene, thank you again for taking me to scranton.
Speaker 8:Let me come there present my film you, you made, you were. It was such a buzz the next day it was. Everyone was like oh my gosh, where are we going to get this dvd? We have to have them come back. We have to talk more about this. Everybody was talking about it.
Speaker 5:So it's all of us together. We're going to try to make a difference. Carlo hello, my friend, fantastic for you. How are you? Nice to meet you, sir. Sorry it took so long to get you in here. Tell us a little bit about your handsome self.
Speaker 3:No problem. Yes, hi, I'm Carlo Treviso, author of the novel Siciliana. I was actually born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, yeah, my dad's family came from Portocello, sicily, back in the 70s.
Speaker 3:So yeah, my dad's family came from Porticello, sicily, back in the 70s. So they immigrated to Milwaukee. That's where I was born. I'm from a family of carpenters and shipwrights, so my nanu built boats for a living.
Speaker 5:Wow that's great. That's great, that's fantastic. So tell us, how many times have you been to Sicily?
Speaker 3:Actually, I've only been once. What, ten years ago? Yeah, my first time was on a tour.
Speaker 5:Wait, Francesco. What do you say about that? Wait a minute, Hold on a second.
Speaker 7:It's a beautiful place. You need to stay here longer. You can go have a nice lunch together, a good lunch. The best lunch ever is in San Felipe together.
Speaker 5:Wow, you see that Carlo, he knows everything. That's amazing. Yeah, he's a tour guy. He also does genealogy Gene, he's a genealogist, he knows everything, absolutely.
Speaker 1:He's an amazing guy, 007. He's the 007 of genealogy. That's who he is.
Speaker 5:I want to ask Manny and Francesca. I think, manny, you explained the story about your father to me. I don't know how tough of a man he was and the kind of work that he did. Can you give me a little bit of a story about your father?
Speaker 4:Do you want to say it? Yeah, so my dad was born in Sicily, obviously during World War II, and he grew up in Jello, which was the key entry point of Operation Husky. So it was a major battle there with where Patton and the US Allied invaded southern Italy and from from there he he then immigrated as a young man over to America in his 20s. Wow, yep, wow.
Speaker 5:Tell me that story about your father. You were in a tough neighborhood growing up.
Speaker 2:I want to hear that story a little bit.
Speaker 5:Francesca tell me that story.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, we grew up in Oakland, california, very, very, very uh, rough neighborhood and my father didn't drive, so he would catch the bus. He worked in San Francisco at an Italian restaurant and, yeah, because that way he didn't everyone that worked there was Italian, so he didn't have to learn the language language.
Speaker 2:So my father never really had a grasp of the english language, not not a good one right and so um, he would come home at night and walk from the bus stop home, and one night um, there was a bunch of commotion and it was past my bedtime but I ran out in the kitchen to see what was going on and apparently he had been um jumped by two guys that were trying to rob him and they had a knife and they, they. His leather jacket got cut up, but they didn't get anything from him. He had them running.
Speaker 5:Wow, wow, typical Sic running. Wow, wow, typical Sicilian man. Oh yeah. So, guys, I'm going to ask this question to everybody. I think it's interesting. So do you still think there's a bias between the north and the south as far as the way the people look at northern Italy and the south and also Sicily Island? We can start with Gene and we'll work our way around the Jerry and the South and also Sicily Island. We can start with Jean and we'll work our way around to Jerry and to Frances.
Speaker 8:Jean first. Well, my experience has been growing up with mostly Southern Italian people, so I didn't really come across that the difference between the North and the South. So much Just looking at genealogy today, though, it's interesting how, even on the passenger list, you were in the North, so decisions were made. The second you stepped off the boat, and just all the reading that I've been doing now I see it, but I never experienced that because I was surrounded by Southern Italians.
Speaker 5:Right, okay.
Speaker 8:From all areas you know, from Sicily and the mainland.
Speaker 5:Okay.
Speaker 6:Jerry, I just have a funny story about that. I was at a feast here in the south shore of Boston recently and Hull has mostly Calabrians Hull, where I live here south of Austin and at this feast there's one whole side where all the Calabrians would go. And you know, I joke with one of the younger guys who's about 25. And this is what they're taught. They were taught literally this is a 25-year-old kid told me this. They were taught that their ancestors struck down and defeated the Sicilians from the hills of Colosso. And I said you know, this is, this is not true, right?
Speaker 6:You know, because the peasants and the worthless and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 5:So I think it's still there to a certain extent.
Speaker 6:But you see some. The Netflix show recently done from scratch, showed a little bit of that was pretty cool.
Speaker 5:Yeah, francesco, you. You, as somebody who's doing the tours and all that stuff, do you see any kind of bias towards north and the south, or what people say, or when people come? Is there a different perspective when somebody comes to Sicily and an expectation of something that could be, you know, in?
Speaker 7:my opinion. I would like to say that we feel Sicilian before we feel Italian. Sicily, in the past, had so many dominations Arab, greek, greek and so we have our own culture, our own dialect. So for us, the flag of. Sicily is more important sometimes than the flag of Italy. So, yes, when people come to the town in Sicily, they are so happy because they start to see the story of the grandmother, of the grandmother who's to come, because I like to say that sometimes people ask me why my family lives in Sicily. It's so beautiful here.
Speaker 7:You have the sun, you have the beach, you have good food. Why? Because in the past the people were very, very poor, so they had to say hello to the family and it was a hello forever, because they go in another state and they don't have any technology. Now we have right, we have this zoom chart. In the past, they send a letter and maybe the letter never arrived right right, that's. I like to help these people because they really want to reconnect the past with the present of the story of the family.
Speaker 7:I like to say that they are very, very proud of the situation, because if they today are able to do the trip in the reverse way. It's thanks to the strong work of these people who went to the USA to try to give a better life at the future generation. Now go to USA is beautiful, but in the past people go to USA for what?
Speaker 5:For good, I guess they have a love life.
Speaker 7:So this make me enjoy my job, because when people live here want to invest, they want to buy property, they say that it's time for me to give something back to my motherland absolutely, I agree, I, I.
Speaker 5:That's why I do all the work that I'm doing. Manny, manny and francesca, I want to ask this question um, how do you feel about the stereotypes in, about in cinema, in movies and TV?
Speaker 2:Well, it's unfortunate, I believe, you know the mafia has been overplayed. It's more so, I think, they, they, they put that on to Sicily and Sicilians than people from Northern Italy, and some of that may have went on, but it wasn't the whole. Your whole life didn't revolve. Not everybody's life was touched by it, you know. So why I so? Why I mean it sells, though it sells, and that's why hollywood does it um. What it doesn't show is is the tremendous pride and the tremendous family connections and and how, you know, open and accepting um sicilians are of everyone. Yeah, where I didn't, I would say I I didn't really feel as open and accepted in northern italy as as I do when I'm in sicily right right, right right manny, yeah, you know, uh, you know how it goes.
Speaker 4:Uh, the Sicilian side of Italy never gets the focus of art, culture and all the beautiful things. They seem to get the negativity. But we're all working hard to change our perception right in Sicily and you're starting to see a little more tourism going down there, and I think this is the start of a renaissance. At least we've noticed one. In Jela. There's a lot of, you know, rehabilitations for the old buildings and and and a lot of new stuff going on. So it's a warms our heart to see Jela turning around and and, yeah, we will be returning at some point also yeah, she carlo.
Speaker 5:How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I mean um, growing up. So I'm first generation born here in america and even growing up. When I would tell people about my sicilian heritage, one of the first things I would hear usually is some nod to like the godfather or like you know, hey don carlo, hey it's like that was kind of always the first point that people associated with Sicily. So I still think I mean maybe it's changing now, but I still think it's the mafia, you know, still kind of prevalent in people's minds.
Speaker 5:You know it's funny.
Speaker 5:I've been, I've been traveling around the country with my films and and you know, I was an actor for a long time in Hollywood and I left because I just didn't want to deal with the way that they depicted our culture generally. It was always the mafia, it was always the thug, it was always the not intelligent person. But I have to say this I think part of it's our fault, not us personally, but our culture's fault. I think somewhere along the line we dropped not us personally, but our culture's fault. I think somewhere along the line we dropped the ball. We allowed this to happen. We perpetuated bad movies, bad stereotypes. I think we didn't pay enough, we didn't what's the word I want to use? We didn't take care of our culture the way we should have. You know, we should have did things to really really usher in certain things.
Speaker 5:And I feel like now that's why we're all trying to come together to try to reimagine and restate this is who we are. You know, from the books, from your beautiful book to Gene's art, to Manny's work, jerry, all of us, francesco, all of us Tribe, bob we're trying to bring back the real positive portrayal of who we are and some of the human stories and there's so many. I've come across in my travels in Sicily, countless amount of heroes that I've talked to personally, men that I wish that I could be half like. When I look at some of the people that I've interviewed and spent time with, um, I feel very, very blessed and fortunate and and uh, in America sometimes I don't think we recognize that. I think we're a little bit out of touch.
Speaker 1:I don't know how anybody else feels about that, but that's how I feel, Bob yeah, no, no, I, I agree, and I think you know, especially when we were there in Sicily, it was like Francesco said it was so beautiful. I mean, you drive around, you drive around the island and you look to the right and there's the sea, and you look to the left and there's the mountains, and every place that we went was just so great. But I want to go back to Carlo for a second, because he wrote a historical novel about Sicily and the uprising against the French, which I found absolutely fascinating, because there were things in there about Sicily that I had no idea about and for people who want to get a sense of what it was like in Sicily, you know 800, we Siciliana, right.
Speaker 5:Carl keep us a little excited to that.
Speaker 3:The novel Siciliana is based on an event called the Sicilian Vespers Uprising. It took place in the year 1282, when the Sicilian people actually rose up against the French occupation that essentially dominated the island at that time. Allegedly, it was started by a young woman who pulled out her blade and stabbed a French soldier, crying death.
Speaker 3:And that's the broader rebellion. They're actually very conflicting accounts of how this happened, but I chose to focus on the young woman's story just because that had the most drama in my opinion. But again, like back to the idea of changing stereotypes, I feel like it all does start with history, understanding our history, understanding the various conquerors that kind of took over Sicily over time, from the Normans to the Arabs to the Romans. There are so many eras in Sicily that are that go beyond just the mafia. As people start to study the history, you can start finding those examples of heroism and courage and Sicilian heart which I like, which I focused on in my book right, right, right.
Speaker 5:So that's it was true. That's what I'm saying. The more you delve into it, the more you read about it, the more people you meet, the more stories you hear. So congratulations on that beautiful book. Everybody should buy the book, carlo. Say it again Siciliana a novel. Yeah, from a woman to a woman hero About time.
Speaker 7:So my last name is Corleone, so when?
Speaker 5:I say myself.
Speaker 7:you say Mr Corleone.
Speaker 5:Of course.
Speaker 7:It's a little bit funny but bad at the same time, because it's the stereotype of the mafia. But I like to say that now, in Sicily, it's different. The mafia still exists and it's a problem, but it's not anymore the old man with the hat and the gun on the back. Now the mafia is the corruption, it's the politics and it's hard to pound.
Speaker 5:Right, it's a lot of-.
Speaker 7:But we have a lot of people who fight for give a new perspective in Sicily. Just if you remember, every time you land in Sicily, the name of the airport is Falcone and Borsellino. These two judges born in Palermo and they used to play with the big future mafia boss, Tommaso Pichetta, Tottorino, Salvatore Provenzano. They take a different way. They study law, they give their life for the land and now the kids study the story and they know they are right right because they compete. So let's remove the stereotype of the mafia.
Speaker 5:But I think but I think that's the problem. It's not even sister, sister, seriously, it's American, because the Americans are so get caught up in stereotypes and we make movies about that. I think they're the ones that are perpetuating it, not even not Cicely's American mindset, and the commercial of films is perpetuating the Mafia, the Godfather, corleone. I always say this the Godfather was Corleone. You know, as I always say this, the Godfather was the greatest movie of all time, probably. But everything else that they try to make like it is horrible and becomes stereotypical. But people start to keep making things like this and they start to believe that this is who we are. So it's really the issue of the filmmakers and the people who. It's like an Italian actor. You know, you don't have to do this part. You don't have to do this part. You don't have to do it. You have to make a choice. You know, do I want to perpetuate this terrible stereotype or do I want to stand with dignity, with my culture? So you know.
Speaker 8:I think one of the keys to that is people doing their own genealogy and they learn about the history of what was happening at the time and why they made the decisions that they made. And just that alone has just opened my eyes to what being a Sicilian is really about. I mean, once I got over the whole black hand being in my town and all the stories that I used to hear, then I started to focus on the individual families and what they went through and the women who lost children one after another, and they gathered everything they could to come here. I keep going back to the movie the Golden Door, just like the Sicilian family coming and coming across the ocean and, uh, what they gave up, really absolutely nothing, because they had nothing, but they just had such hope. And I think people start to look at their own family, their own genealogy, and do that research. They're like, oh well, we're more than food and the mafia.
Speaker 5:Absolutely Very beautiful, very beautiful.
Speaker 3:Anybody else there on that. So I think the Godfather as a story was well-intentioned, right Like it was very sincerely told. Mario Puzo obviously is a brilliant author but, I, think this goes to show you what the power of entertainment. You know, it was a good book, it was a good movie, but it it focused on a very, very small slice of Sicilian history right and that became a powerhouse of popular culture, and that's what people gravitate towards.
Speaker 3:So it goes back to the idea that we need to keep telling our stories, getting them out there in new ways, and hope to shift that popular culture mindset to a different kind of lens absolutely education, you know education is an important thing go ahead.
Speaker 1:Many and francesca.
Speaker 2:I think you guys want to jump in um, I just wanted to say that I actually just read that book, uh, siciliana, like about a month ago, and, um, it was very interesting. I really liked it. And it was very interesting to know that it was based on an actual event that happened. Um, the uh, vespers of palermo I it was. You know, I went and did some research about that afterwards, so I knew that they were very poor in Sicily I mean, my family wasn't rich by any means and also with Michael's film La Puerta del Inferno the quote that he had in the beginning from Booker T Washington, I did a deep dive after watching the film to find out what the condition of the people were in Sicily in the early 1900s when Booker T Washington went to go visit and he wrote five chapters in his book about it. And so I did a deep dive after that.
Speaker 2:And you know it's it's what you were saying about education is important, but in a way it kind of has. It's putting people in a situation in sicily right now where we have all these these young adults that are going to universities and getting educated and then coming back to sicily and not being able to find a job. Yeah, um, and people are, people are going away from their traditions of like. Um, we were, you know, we grew fruit and we sold fruit. We were fruit vendors. You know no one wants to do that manual labor anymore. I mean, they still do it. You still see it. You can still buy your fruit from the Lapa that comes down the street announcing what his speaker, you know, in Jela they still do it. So you can still buy all your fruit and everything like that. But now that people, the younger generation, is more educated, um, it's going to go away. It because people are not going to keep that that up once they're educated.
Speaker 2:Like my father, um only had a third grade education because at that time in sicily, um, you had to get started working, like when you were young, to try to help the family, and so my father wasn't a big guy either and I remember um he eventually was a barber out there, but at first he was working making bricks and everybody was telling my grandmother and grandfather, you got to get him out of there because he's he's not built for that, he's not built for that type of manual labor. Um, he actually eventually became a barber and they're still in that in jela, there's still barbers that are still working there that remember my father that actually worked with him when he was learning. Um, he only, like I said, he only had a third grade education, but he was one of the smartest people I I ever knew. I don't know what they were teaching them in the third grade in sicily, but it was not what we're learning, what we learned here in America.
Speaker 5:Absolutely, Jerry. Darken the bowels back there in Boston.
Speaker 6:I can see you barely. But tell me something you know. I think you make a lot of great points about the Godfather. It's funny I remember being 16 years old watching that movie and hearing the Sicilian language and it just clicked that that's my family. Wait a minute, I understand every single you know intently. But the other point I wanted to make was I think the Sopranos, more recently, has had such an impact I mean, a lot of people call that the greatest TV show ever made so you know that's had a tremendous impact as well just to really, you know, carry it along to deeper depths.
Speaker 5:You know the thing about it is funny because you know, being an actor in this crazy industry and I would go out for auditions. You know I have a college degree I have actually two degrees and you know every part. Was you know this or that? I'm like you know all the every, every part. Was you know this or that?
Speaker 3:I'm like you know, I don't I might make.
Speaker 5:you used to get mad at me why do you want? I said I don't want to do that, but you got to work. It's not like that. So I would go off and do some really beautiful films, and it didn't have to be italian films, it could be any, but they were family films about a story, and you know, if you have a family, it doesn't matter if you're sicilian. This, this or not, it's a family story.
Speaker 5:So what I'm trying to say is there's so many other things to do and to talk about with our culture. There's so many beautiful, uh, artists and sculptors and musicians, and and family stories and personal stories that could be told and and I think this is the things that we have to push ourselves to do and Carlo writes a book, jean does a beautiful sculpture, maddie runs the great, you know, san Francisco Italian American club. Jerry Jerry learns about his father being a carousel grandpa. You know it's like. This is. This is what we're meant to do, and if it's been really, really inspiring to me is that I've met a lot of young kids all over Sicily, all over America, and to me it's really not about even if it's not about Sicily, it's about your own, whatever your family's from, whatever that is.
Speaker 5:But you need to learn, you need to know who you are, and I think what I would like to emphasize to people out there if you are Sicilian, or if you're Italian or if you're something else, like Gene said earlier, you got to find out who you are, where your family comes from, what they went through to get here. It's an important thing because it really informs you and it changes your life in a lot of ways. When I went to Sicily, I had just lost my mother, my father, my sister. I was very, very lost and I was very close to my grandfather extremely close, like you all are, I'm sure, or were and I was looking for. You know, I was looking to get back in touch with myself and the only way I could understand how to do that was to try to talk to my grandfather, who wasn't alive. So when I went back to Sicily for the first time and I saw the sign of Limina, which is Francesco that's that sign up there behind me I broke down in tears.
Speaker 1:Segueing into something I wanted to ask Francesco because I think it's important, especially with the work that he does. So, Francesco, we know how we feel when we come to sicily, or we come to italy and we go to the hometown. What are the? What are the two? Two questions is almost the same question how do the sicilian people feel when we visit and what's your experience with the americans when they visit?
Speaker 7:oh my god, we love it. We love it for so many reasons.
Speaker 7:Because, first of all, each one of us have some member of family who live in the USA. My family, for example, is in Long Island in New York. So we have cousins, uncles. So when Americans arrive in town we are super happy to welcome these people. Also, american soldier in the second mondial war helped the italians to building the democracy. So they give the freedom we were during the fashion time. I leave this young soldier entering this town. My grandmother still remembers young soldier entering this town. My grandmother still remembers as young as what you'll be chocolate to the longest. So when now a reeds apartment town, we are super happy to work.
Speaker 7:Yesterday to visit the chester town called the capital. It's a small town in the middle of nowhere, but when the client was welcome, like she was Mary Monroe, the mayor let her stop to work in the office to talk with me on the street. We went to knock, knock to the door of some family member to try to connect the woman with some family and we did. Wow, one minute, she came from palermo with the driver. The driver said oh, you can stay only two hours. Wow, we really wasn't invited inside the house almost forever, right you?
Speaker 7:are here as a stranger and, like me, you are sitting and you enjoy pasta with the locals well, that's what I'm saying and I was lucky because I was there with my Sicilian wife, so I got treated.
Speaker 5:You're very lucky Bob, you're part Sicilian. You're very lucky I wouldn't be doing this podcast. But honestly, just to get back, because Bob cut me off. I don't know why he did that. I was very emotional at that moment, but no you were going to cry.
Speaker 5:Gene knows me. I cry a lot. I can't help it. I'm Sicilian, but no, I just wanted to just say that, for anyone who goes back or hasn't gone back yet, gene, gene, that the feeling you get when you lay your feet on the land of your grandparents or your ancestors will change your life forever that's all I can tell you.
Speaker 4:And not only the feeling when you get off the plane and you're in Sicily, you can smell it in the air.
Speaker 5:It smells different.
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah, it's the greatest just to see the names of the people that I feel like I know now, um, doing all the research and attaching documents, his profiles, I feel like I know them, I know their stories, they're like the basic stats of them. But to see their names, like even in a graveyard graveyard, just on the stone, to be able to touch that person's stone, is just I know it's powerful, it's mind blowing and you know it's.
Speaker 5:It's like I don't know for everybody else, but for me it's like my whole life changed. Boom, I just went crazy. I just couldn't take it anymore. So it's just, it's a. I just want to implore people out there who are listening to the show go back, go back, go back to where your family's from, to Sicily, to Italy. Please find your roots. Call Francesco, go back, because we need people to understand who we are. We need to have passionate people.
Speaker 1:There's amazing, amazing people out there and you need to know who you are, bob. You have another question. Oh, what is that? What is your favorite sicilian desk, francesco? Do you remember mine, francesco? Do you remember my favorite attack, my favorite sicilian dish?
Speaker 7:arancini I don't cheat, of course I?
Speaker 5:What kind Regular cheese, arancini Bob? What kind Peas meat?
Speaker 1:No, no, the peas and meat, the peas and meat that's my favorite.
Speaker 5:And Jerry, what's yours?
Speaker 6:So it's definitely I consider arancini a side dish.
Speaker 5:Me too, Me too.
Speaker 6:Yeah, if you talk about a dish, I don't know, it's a tough one. We had them all. My dad would regularly have a rabbit cook for himself and sit in the middle of the table A rabbit.
Speaker 5:With the little beady eyes staring at you. Right, Manny, what do you got? Who's your favorite?
Speaker 4:Man, I have to go with Panele.
Speaker 5:Wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 5:Wow.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 5:Wow.
Speaker 4:Panele mixed with the potato. Oh my God. Wow, that's good, you can't beat it, and you can't find it as good as over there.
Speaker 5:You can have it in a sandwich right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, in a sandwich, yeah. With the bread still warm at the bakery. That's the third, fourth generation. Yeah, in the sandwich. Yeah, the bread's still warm at the bakery. That's the third and fourth generation baker that we go to.
Speaker 5:What did you say, Francesco?
Speaker 7:Somebody was so brave to try the spleen sandwich, the panino con la milza.
Speaker 5:Oh, spleen sandwich. We're in Palermo, francesco. In Palermo there's a street food, right the street food. The guy has the white sack and he reaches in and he slaps it on the. He's calling the priest a priest.
Speaker 7:He's summoning someone to show what's his he's calling and he puts the hands and takes it and puts it on the thing.
Speaker 5:I'm not sure that's anything, but it's probably brain and everything else in there too. What is in that?
Speaker 7:I don't know exactly what it is.
Speaker 5:I can't trust those guys at Palermo to tell me what I'm eating.
Speaker 7:Food you like or you hate.
Speaker 5:Exactly, Carlo. What about you? We have the food.
Speaker 7:Like you said, if you go into the Palarò market you can find everything you want.
Speaker 5:Exactly.
Speaker 7:Like Francesco said, the smell, that's the smell of season.
Speaker 5:You really enjoy you feel you are One second, carlo. What's the name of the market in Palermo, by the way? Palarò.
Speaker 7:Uciria, capo Artetri, famosuano At the Quattro Conti over there in that area.
Speaker 5:Quattro.
Speaker 7:Conti yes, before Corler. Yes, okay, Bravo, bravo, carlo. What? Do you got.
Speaker 3:I would 100% say Panelli as well. First time I had it, I remember I was a kid Don't remember what age but we had them every year at Christmas Eve. I had no idea they were chickens at that time. They were just these golden, fried, beautiful creations that just blew my mind when I first had them as a child. Wow, I have a very personal connection to them If we're going to call them a side dish, because those are probably also considered side dishes- I got to be honest.
Speaker 5:I would say that my favorite dish would then be pasta with peas. That's really good too. Is that original siciliano, though francesco pasta piselli? I don't know, I don't know pasta cansardi. Right now I don't know if pasta piselli is Sicilian.
Speaker 7:No, yeah, there's more Sicilian.
Speaker 5:Okay. Pasta cansardi Francesca and you.
Speaker 2:I actually, my favorite is pattedra fritto, fried with onions, and it's in Italian. I didn't even know that, that's not how you say it in italian, it's called tellini, and they are little tiny clams and you get them fresh. People sell them on the street. Um, they, they take a net and they drag the the beach, you know, in the water, they attach it to themselves and, um, I've eaten them raw right out of the right out of the sea, but they're not baby clams. There are specific species of clam that's oh yeah, anything involving bread all right.
Speaker 5:So okay, okay, okay. What about I'll bring bread? All right, okay, okay, okay. What about, francesco? You know tenorumi? Yes, I know tenorumi. Pasta tenorumi. What about cardoon? What about cardoon? Tenerumi is a kind of green Ah, zucchini flour from the zucchini, my favorite pasta, oh wow, when I was in Sisi, because my grandpa used to have it also cardoon. You know, cardona Cardona, yes, cardona frites. My grandpa used to go to the cemetery and pick them out of the cemeteries.
Speaker 7:And he would bring them home. Exactly For sure we don't eat fettuccine alfredo.
Speaker 5:No, I don't understand.
Speaker 7:I don't understand these people with the fettuccine. I don't understand. I don't understand these people with the special.
Speaker 5:I don't get it, but anyway. Oh fish, all fish.
Speaker 7:I no-transcript pizza I like, I love steak. I love steak.
Speaker 5:I love prime rib with a big potato it's a sicilian cowboy, sicilian cowboy, you're from argentina, sicilian. What is that? By the way, the french? Yes. Did you know that the the in America, the meat and pasta together in America, is from Argentina? Right? Did you know that the rice from Argentina? Yeah, sicilians, who are Argentinians, sicilians, came to America and they bring a lot of meat. So that's how that whole dish started. Okay, okay.
Speaker 7:We should look that up, that's history. I know you like cannoli but me I like to try the American breakfast with the French toast, the pancake. I like peanut butter jelly.
Speaker 5:So you're actually American, Francesco you're American.
Speaker 7:For God's sake.
Speaker 5:I'm from Pennsylvania. You're from Scranton, Pennsylvania. What are we talking to you for? You're in Sheffaloo. I have a very dear friend of mine coming from Piazza Almerina. He's coming with his kids the first time to America. He's a tour guide. He's in Piazza Marina, he's one of the best tour guides in the country and it's his first time to America. And it's funny because financially he has no idea what this is about here, Because you know you can rent an apartment in Piazza Marina for $350 a month. So he's coming here like Disney tickets alone for two kids is like $1,200.
Speaker 8:Oh, the poor guy.
Speaker 5:And he's got to rent the car and he's got to do this and he's got to do that. And I said, rosario, you're going to have to sell your house in Sicily to come for a week, but anyway, I'm excited to show him and his children a little bit of the American way, a little breakfast, a little this, a little that, because they've never been here. So it's really exciting for me to repay the favor that he did for me, because when I went to Piazza Marina with my film this is what I'm talking about Sicilian people, how special they are when I went and he gave me his house, he gave me his car. Michael, take whatever you want, be whatever you want, gave me this, gave me that. He became like my brother.
Speaker 5:He's one of the nicest people I've met in my life and I just I want to. This is what it should be. We should return the favor that we give, that they give to us. We bring them back to us and we return that favor. So I think this is a great way to start a great touristic thing, you know, switching people over. We come to you, you come to us and you give them the American way and they give us the.
Speaker 7:Sicilian way right, absolutely True, I agree, I'm a Sicilian.
Speaker 5:You want to go to cocktail hour in Beverly Hills? What the hell is going on here? Did you know, francesco? In Sicily, in Los Angeles, there's the brothers the Drago brothers Did you ever hear of? In in Sicily, in, uh, in in Los Angeles, there's a brothers the Drago brothers. Did you ever hear the Drago brothers?
Speaker 7:No.
Speaker 5:So they're from different Messina. There were 15 restaurants here in Los Angeles, 15 Sicilian restaurants, very, very successful, very, very successful people. My wife works at one of the restaurants, so they try the best they can to do to keep it Sicilian. But unfortunately everything gets Americanized in some way or form Because people don't understand how to deliver the food or they don't know how to cook the food a certain way. There's obviously not Sicilians in the kitchen, so it's a different mentality, but it's not as authentic. But they try. I don't expect the best Sicilian food.
Speaker 7:So it's a different mentality, you know, but it's not as authentic. But they try, you know they try. I don't expect to go to the best Sicilian food USA. If you want a good cannoli, you need to come to Palermo.
Speaker 5:Exactly. I'll tell you where the best cannoli I've had in my life. You're not going to lie. It's not Palermo. Where no, in Libere where no footy pistachio, one of the greatest can always, ever. It was incredible. Have you been to?
Speaker 7:all the islands, francesco, of course, anybody else, anybody else here?
Speaker 5:I don't know if anybody else has been to the islands, but it's incredible, francesca.
Speaker 2:Manny, you know I've been to Sicily 17 times and that's all I went to was Jella Francesca help me out, come on. I travel around the island to different cities, but never to the islands, and I I do plan on doing it though, manny, will you please go to the islands, for god's sakes hey, we have plans to to hit all of them, believe me, but we're gonna definitely have to connect with francesco when we go back, because uh, because you're right by Shefalou.
Speaker 4:We went to Shefalou last year.
Speaker 5:Wow, Fantastic, Is it true, Francesco? Cinema Paradiso. Did they shoot some of the scenes in Shefalou? No, Cinema Paradiso.
Speaker 7:Cinema Paradiso yeah, beautiful movie.
Speaker 5:One of my favorite films of all time.
Speaker 1:We just watched the Lions of Sicily, oh yeah, and we were watching, francesco, we were watching and I said we would see the port and I said to my wife, I said that's Cepaloo. She said no, I don't think I said no, that's Cepaloo, I know, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 7:Did you ever see the original with Burt Lancaster? Yeah, yeah, that's right. By the way, both of the two movies talk about the story of the Canopus family in Sicily. Yes, the Florio family was one of the most smart business people ever, really. They started with the pharmacy, then became Sunforo, then Florio.
Speaker 5:It was the Florio family. No.
Speaker 1:That's a true story, the Florio family right the Florio family.
Speaker 5:It's a true story.
Speaker 7:The Florio family. Right, the Florio family. It's a true story. I didn't know that.
Speaker 5:In my film yeah the Florio family. But they also did some bad things, I hate to say it. So they were the ones that perpetuated the sulfur mines. Yes, they were the ones that perpetuated the sulfur mines. Yes, along with the padrones and people like that they were bringing in to run the sulfur mines. So just so we're on the right side of history. So we know they did some great things, but they also did some not so great things.
Speaker 7:I just want to say that when people have a kind of business and they have a big factory. They give job, give job. By the same time they lose people exactly, it's hard, it's unfortunate.
Speaker 7:This is the world with and it's happening today as well, because I am for one client to become an Italian citizen in the ancestor town of Islercara Frigi. Guess what? In Florida, they reopened the soup for mine just for one day, to give him the possibility to see what was the life in the past. And the mayor gave him the possibility to be the first one who can go inside the soup for minor. So it was very emotional because the grandfather used to work Right, he became a firefighter and now he's going back to the same place where the grandfather used to work.
Speaker 7:I didn't show you the photo, I didn't show you the video Send it to me. Yes, you will love it.
Speaker 5:You cannot, I would love that. Where is that? What's up for mine? Okay, yeah okay, yeah because it's there, they're everywhere, they're everywhere. All the carafriti, they're all, all over the Sicily yeah me, do I be inside?
Speaker 7:I went down, they stay, are in a strange position and they used to send the kids for work because they are little so they can fit better.
Speaker 5:When you arrive down, there is some sort of strong smell, lose yeah, it's a, it's a terrible, uh, a family here that we have people, gene and Jerry, and the families that have been affected by this. It's an eye-opening experience to hear and to learn about what these young Karusi and men and boys had to deal with endure. My film depicts that in a very, very, very deep way, and those men and the families that have suffered that have been incredible. I went down into the sulfur mines myself to think that somebody goes down 2,000 feet into the earth with no food, naked, at 10 years old, 12 years old, carrying up 80 pounds of sulfur on their backs. If anybody wants to learn a little bit about that, they can write to me on my Facebook page Messenger about my film, la Puerta del Inferno.
Speaker 5:We've been showing it around the world, but it still goes on today. People are still working in these terrible conditions, so it never stops. We need to learn. This is a socioeconomic lesson, because not only has it stopped in Sicily, it just moved to another country. Wherever there's poverty, things like this happen. So the message is still fresh in the world. We have to keep giving education to the world and we've got to help these people, please, whatever we can do.
Speaker 8:Do you have any clips of that person visiting the mine in Le Carre? Yes, can you post that?
Speaker 7:I take a video of the last old man alive in town was the last kid who used to work and the people ask a question to him like they want to know. And he said for me, today we are reopening the Tisza at Sulphur Mine, but for me this was the most bad moment of my life and I remember what I had to do. And I had to do it because my family was big. We were seven kids and we needed to support the family. I lost one brother in this so far mine. Incredible. There are no way for describe what you see and thanks God, I record so I can share you. Yes, you and you will have a better idea.
Speaker 7:I come.
Speaker 5:Matter of fact, I want to come there myself when I come to sister. You and I will go there and we'll bring it. I want to bring my film to those people. I would like to show my film there.
Speaker 7:I would like to say that they reopened the soup for mine, for an example for the next generation. Yes, you are lucky. Your family in the past had to do this to support you. So think before, do wrong to stop your life absolutely you.
Speaker 5:Good for you. Exactly this is what we're all trying to do here, bob. We have any other questions?
Speaker 1:just that one from from from rich. Do you think they'll? They're gonna build that bridge across the streets? Rich, I don't know which, I don't think it's a good idea, francesca.
Speaker 5:They're gonna from Messina, from.
Speaker 1:Calabria, I don't know which. I don't think it's a good idea, francesco, you think they're gonna from Messina, from Calabria.
Speaker 5:I don't political.
Speaker 7:I don't think they will make this bridge.
Speaker 3:There's a plate that runs down the middle, so I think that would be like a scientific problem, wouldn't it? I believe there's a tectonic plate that runs right down the straight, if I'm not mistaken. I might be mistaken.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's a big mechanical problem. Trust me, we don't want.
Speaker 7:Yeah, you mistaken. Yeah, it's a big mechanical problem. Trust me, we don't want. Yeah, it's very close, the land shake out the time so it's not really good to be able to. Building a big bridge close to a volcano blues will cost a ton of money that they can invest for fixing the cc road that are are in very bad condition. We don't have very good public transportation, so let's see.
Speaker 5:I hope that they don't, but anyway.
Speaker 4:Hey, that ferry runs pretty well, man, you can bring your car, it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 5:Easy. That's what I say. That's what I say. Keep it the way it is. It's good the way it is. We have anything, bob, any more questions that we have to ask anybody?
Speaker 1:no, michael, I just want to put up a little there for people watching who, if they want to contact Francesco about genealogy or Italian citizenship in Sicily, francesco about genealogy, italian citizenship in Sicily. Francesco is one of my best friends, I love you.
Speaker 5:He's a great guy, bob, you don't say that to me. You son of a gun and I work with you all the time, jesus Christ.
Speaker 7:You don't feed me.
Speaker 1:You don't feed me exactly, and uh uh, I spelt it wrong, but it's a giliana, right? Uh, right, carlo giliana right giliana, it's a fantastic book. You will feel like you're in sicily in 1280. It's, it's, it's that good Congratulations.
Speaker 8:Carlo Next on my list.
Speaker 5:Congratulations. Thank you.
Speaker 1:For people who want to, michael's got two films out there. La Puerta del Inferno is the one about the sulfur mines, which is super, and then he also has what's the name of the liminal one, michael I?
Speaker 5:have no idea I can. Behind me up there. I have no idea. It's on the portal. I did try to read it. It's behind me up there. I don't know. Everybody knows it. Ritonato, ritonato.
Speaker 1:Ritonato, ritonato. So well, this has been fantastic guys, great stuff, and I think the two most important've given so much to this country in terms of education and art and literature and everything else that we shouldn't forget that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, anybody else want to say anything before we close off? Ben Fonte.
Speaker 8:Excited to be here and I'm going to get to Sicily. I swear I'm getting there.
Speaker 5:Gene, where did we find your beautiful art? Gene did a beautiful portrait of sulfur miners, beautiful thing. Where can we find you, Gene?
Speaker 8:The images just came and I think it was in my DNA and then I realized that it was about the sulfur mines. Like how did that happen? I don't know, just my first name, last name, dot com. Gene benfonte dot com.
Speaker 5:Gene benfonte dot com. Jerry, how can we, who wants to get in touch with you, who cares?
Speaker 6:but go ahead, jerry, anything I don't think anyone's gonna want to get in touch with me, that's okay, but I thank you very much for including me in on this. Uh, to kind of validate what gene was saying earlier, I learned that my grandfather got a, a free pass to not have to fight in the italian war and instead he had to go to the belgian coal mines. Yeah, wow, yeah, very interesting, because he was a child.
Speaker 5:I gotta be honest, guys. J Jerry was the first person who contacted me when my film was running around. He was one of the first person that knew exactly what I was doing. So, jerry, hats off to you, my brother, for loving your family and for the respect you have for your family.
Speaker 6:Beautiful movie and, in summary, what I loved about that movie most and I know you don't see a lot of clips out there at the moment is the actual people that were working in the mines come back as old men and they're interviewed in detail some really intricate detail, and I just found that fascinating.
Speaker 5:Thank you, Jerry, Manny, Manny and Francesc. Anything else?
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you all for inviting us to this, and everyone there has an open invitation to come to San Francisco. Let me know if you're coming out. My way you can learn more about what we're doing to keep Little Italy, north Beach, vibrant and alive. We have one of the most vibrant Little Italy's in the United States and a lot of people don't know about it. But you can look us up at SFIACorg if you want to see what we're doing here in San Francisco and please reach out to me if you guys are coming out.
Speaker 5:And what about the pizzeria? I was trying to get into the pizzeria with you man. We had to wait on a three-hour line. What's going on Next time?
Speaker 4:I want to be on the front of the line. Let me know we're going to be in the front for sure.
Speaker 5:All right man, you're the best. You're the best. Thank you so much, and I can vouch for San Francisco because Manny and Francesca do an amazing job up there. Thank you, guys for being here. I appreciate you very much. Thank you, and anybody else. Sorrentino, we don't.
