Italian Roots and Genealogy
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Italian Roots and Genealogy
The Journey of Italian-American Families in Hershey
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Lou Paioletti as we uncover the rich legacy of Italian-American heritage in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Lou takes us on a heartfelt journey, sharing his family's migration story from Tuscany to Hershey, a town renowned for its chocolate but also a beacon of hope for countless Italian immigrants drawn by industrial opportunities. We explore how these families, including Lou's ancestors, contributed significantly to Hershey's industrial evolution, particularly in the stone quarries and the broader employment landscape of the 1920s and 1930s.
Lou's personal stories offer a vivid portrayal of maintaining ties across continents. Through shared memories of a father who served in World War II and the cherished weekly calls with relatives in Italy, we delve into the emotional resonance of family bonds that defy distance and time. These narratives are a testament to the enduring connection between Italian-American communities and their cultural roots, highlighted by Lou's own experiences of gaining citizenship and the magical encounters during visits to Italy.
The episode also casts a spotlight on the labor movements of the 1930s, revealing the complex legacy of Milton Hershey. While his projects kept many employed during tough times, they also sparked unrest and a failed strike in 1937, with Italian-Americans at the heart of these events. Through engaging stories and critical reflections, we celebrate the resilience of this vibrant community and debunk stereotypes, acknowledging their vast contributions beyond the confines of popular culture's limited narratives. Join us as we honor the true legacy of Italian-Americans in shaping not only Hershey but also the broader American landscape.
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Hi everyone, this is Bob Sorrentino from Italian Roots and Genealogy. Be sure to check out our blog and our YouTube channel and our newsletter and our great sponsors, italy, ro phil italy and abiotiva casa. And my guest today is lou paoletti, and lou's got a great family, italian american family, and also some great information about hershey, pennsylvania, which I never knew, and the italian, uh, the italian roots to hershey. So so welcome Lou. Thanks for being here. Hey Bob, thanks for having me, my pleasure. So just you know I want to talk a lot about Hershey, with that history and how the Italians were involved in Hershey, pennsylvania and the chocolate factory and all of that. But just a little bit of background. You know where's your family from in Italy and when did they arrive? Just a little bit of background.
Speaker 3:You know where's your family from in Italy and when did they arrive? Yeah well, my dad's, my dad's parents, came from. They're from Piccoliano, Italy, from southeastern Tuscany. They arrived here first, I believe it was 1909. Now they came back and forth a few times. So the earliest recollection that I have, or the earliest records, rather, that I have seen, were from 1909. Uh, luigi and maria paoletti and my uh mother's parents, uh, dalio and josepina franci. They came from a nearby town called samproniano, italy, also in in tuscany, and uh, I gotta tell you I forget the exact year, but I believe they came shortly thereafter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you know. That's because most of the people boy, probably 90% of the people that I interview are mostly from Southern Italy. I've had a few in the North Gee, I don't know if I even had anybody from Tuscany yet, so maybe one, yeah. So do you know why they came and how they wound up suddenly in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 3:Speaking of my family specifically and I think this is very indicative of many of the Italian Americans who came here in the very late 1800s, early 1900s Hershey most people around the country, around the world, call it Hershey and I will call it Hershey for this interview. Technically there is no official town called Hershey. It's an unincorporated community. The township is Derry Township, but it became famous because of Milton Hershey, the chocolate magnate. So they came to Hershey for several reasons. A lot of the Italians came here because of the work in the stone quarries. That's where my mother's father, delio, worked in the local stone quarries, and then my dad's father, luigi, came here, primarily for the factory. And there's a lot in Hershey, pa. There's a tremendous amount of people from the Tuscany area, from Abruzzo, la Marche and so forth. We also have our share of Southern Italians, but the vast majority are, I would say, from the Tuscany area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know it's funny you say that about Hershey, because I had no idea that there was a town called Hershey.
Speaker 3:It's really technically. Some people don't like when I say this, but technically Hershey is nothing more than a post office. Some people don't like when I say this, but technically Hershey is nothing more than a post office. It's a post office, but you know it's. We're famous for the name Hershey.
Speaker 2:So we call it Hershey. So now how? Because because you know, going through your information there, you know the the Italian community had a great deal to do with Hershey the factory, absolutely. So how did that all start? How did?
Speaker 3:that come about. Yeah Well, you know, I think of course the economy was horrible at the time in Italy. A lot of people, including some of my relatives, who I'm still very close with, by the way, in Italy, some of them moved to northern Italy and they live around the Venice area. But for those who did not move out of the area and some did stay in Tuscany and just endured the hard times, but you know, word spread rather fast that there was industry in this area and, by the way, they didn't. You know, there's also the coal region area, which is not too far from here. So a lot of Italians went to the coal regions also and came here. Some even worked in the steel mills industry and came here. But word spread, excuse me, word spread very quickly that there was a really good company, quickly that there was a really good company and, for all intents and purposes, a really really good man, milton Hershey, who employed people and they came here for a better life. And it was, I believe.
Speaker 2:Dr Justin Marchegiani. So now so how many people did he actually employ there early on?
Speaker 3:Okay, so early on no, I don't have the exact statistics, but early on and I'm going to say I'm going back because a lot of my research is based on the 1920s and 1930s, so don't hold this to me but early on I'd say there was about maybe a couple thousand employees in the factory. Now I don't have any hard statistics to prove that. What I do know is that and we can talk about this part later but during the labor movement and all the turmoil that was there, there are conflicting stories about how many people actually participated in the labor movement, and those stories go from 800 up to 1, to 1500 or so, and they weren't all involved in it. So let's say about 2000 or so.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of people for back then it's a lot of yes, yeah. And so just for just for people, I think I, I think I went there once. But for people who you know, who don't know that much about Pennsylvania, where in the state is Hershey actually located?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're in South Central Pennsylvania, dauphin County, a wonderful area, and you know the town and I guess, for all the right reasons, you know the town has really changed a lot. I'm very unique. I'm one, I'm probably the one percent of one percent of Americans. I'm 58 years old. I never left my house. I still live in the same house that I grew up in.
Speaker 3:I have seen, I had a first row view of how this town has has changed. I had the privilege of growing. I came along late in life. Also, I came along 20 years after my only sibling, my sister. She was I was born in 66. She was born in 46. And I got to really see my neighborhood transform from an ethnic, primarily Italian blue collar factory neighborhood, okay, To what is now very much a medical research community. We have the Pennsylvania State University Medical Center here in town which is the primary driver of the economy. And you know I it's amazing to see how the town has changed so much. But you know I can look back at my childhood and I look at all of the I say the older people that I grew up with and you know I can always say that I will always know what it's like to grow up in a blue collar ethnic neighborhood. My kids aren't going to be able to say that, and I think that's a little sad, even though I think change is good.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I answered your question, though, bob.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, you did, and you know. It's funny. You say that because I grew up in a town, actually part of New York City, called College Point, which, and you know my wife and I talk about this all the time when I was growing up and I'm 73, there were still factories there Lily Tulip, you know the paper company, and there was Kleinert, a rubber manufacturer, and even you know some top secret military facility there which you know when you think about it, it's not that that long ago and, and to your point, you know that's that's all kind of gone now. You know my uncles. My uncles used to make my, my two uncles used to work in a furniture factory in College Point, new York City, you know. But so so yeah, I understand where you're going, you know things change and all of that, but it is sad to see some of that disappear. So now it's fascinating that you still live in the same house that you grew up. How old's the house?
Speaker 3:The house is built in 1948. It's built the old-fashioned way. It is cinder block from the basement all the way up to the peak of the roof and outside the cinder block it's wrapped with brick. And, matter of fact, when I put an addition on the house, my wife and I about 20 years ago we did an all brick addition and you know, matching the brick was not exactly easy. So I I hand painted uh, I hand painted about 2000 other brick just to get the match.
Speaker 2:That's funny, that's so funny. Uh, so you know I I saw her in um in in some of your research that uh, milton Hershey was was. It was apparently a pretty nice guy to the workers because we know back then that a lot of these people there were the, I guess, the factory towns and all of that and a lot of them weren't very nice to the people.
Speaker 3:Mr Hershey was incredibly nice and nice and you know some of my research is constructively critical of Mr Hershey. But without being disrespectful to him, I think when you do research, I think you need to tell the whole story and I think if you do research the right way and you use as much primary research as possible, it gives the researcher the opportunity to interpret things on his or her own. But I try to keep the research extremely, extremely balanced and I'm very careful to make sure that I compliment Mr Hershey, which is much deserved. He was extremely supportive of the Italian community In the 1920s and 1930s. Cross burnings were not uncommon in this town. People don't like to hear this stuff. It happened. Cross burnings were not uncommon and it wasn't cross burnings by the KKK against the African American community, because I think there were about maybe three African Americans living here at the time. The Italians right posed much more of a risk to the local German American community, irish community than the blacks did. And the KKK it was very well known Blackstead and the KKK it was very well known. Uh, they were protesting against the Italian and Catholic community. Mr Hershey was extremely supportive.
Speaker 3:Many of the Italians lived in the old Italian Enclave and Hershey called swatara swatara swatara station because a train station, uh was a very historic station. It's been completely remodeled, it's beautiful. It doesn't operate anymore but it's a beautiful, renovated station and that's the neighborhood the Italians lived in. And then, as the Italians got more money and they could afford other properties, they went to the other areas of the town to live and the neighboring streets and the people on those streets absolutely did not want Italians living there. And, as the story goes, a street which is one block away from me, west Granada Avenue, mr Hershey gave the Italians first right of refusal. He allowed them to buy property and build homes on that, on that street.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's something, that's something. And so so now, what did you? What did your parents tell you about those times?
Speaker 3:Yeah, ok, so my, my mom, my mom died. I was five years old. I do have some very nice memories of my mom. I can still remember People don't believe me when I say this I can still remember my mom and my friend's parents. They would all carpool together taking me to preschool, pulled together taking me to preschool. People say there's no way you can remember preschool. I do remember preschool. I remember a few other things about my mom, but I don't remember any stories she would tell.
Speaker 3:Now, my dad, on the other hand this is interesting my dad now he died in 1988. I was 21 years old, so he and I lived together Until then old, so he and I lived together. And until then his mother, who lived to be 96, lived in our house until she was 76 years old. And my dad's sister, who died in uh september of 2003, my aunt. She lived to be 99 years old.
Speaker 3:So between those people the remaining people in my house, I got to hear some stories. Mainly the stories were just about the old neighborhood and so forth, and just stories about Italy. They would talk about Italy a lot. Living in Italy, growing up in Italy, my dad would often talk to me about World War II. He served in the South Pacific in World War II. My dad also. They didn't talk much about the factory, but I guess they didn't have to because my dad worked in the factory for 36 years. So I sort of kind of knew what the factory was all about. So I sort of kind of lived through, you know, his life in the factory.
Speaker 3:But the one thing my dad always said to me my dad did things a little backwards. My dad was the only one of his siblings that was born here. All of his other siblings were born in Pitaliano, italy. My dad was born here in 1920. When his dad got sick he was the youngest by 16 years got sick. He was the youngest by 16 years. When his dad got sick, his mom and dad decided to move back to italy, thinking, you know, the home country would make him feel better. They took my dad with him and my dad loved his parents, never said a bad thing about them, but to the day he died my dad was always a little bitter.
Speaker 3:He told me, instead of taking me back to italy with them, I wish they would have put me in the milton hershey industrial school. That school today is worth 20 billion, that's with a b billion dollars. I think there are only four universities in the country that have more money than this private school. It used to be an orphanage, just for boys. It's much more diverse now. But my dad said you know, I had an eighth grade education. I would have had a much better education if I would have been placed in the Milton Hershey School instead of having to spend the 1930s surviving Mussolini's fascist wars in Italy. In 1937, my dad, who was a US citizen, came back to Hershey. I think he was thinking I don't want to get drafted by the Italian army. I could understand that he made the right move. So again, a lot of recollections of the stories from the homeland.
Speaker 2:Now, that's surprising that they talked about Italy, because you know almost to a person, everybody I've interviewed their grandparents and such they didn't talk that much about Italy. Yeah, grandparents and such, they didn't talk that much about Italy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know my dad. They would talk. Most of the stories were about Piccoliano, which is my paternal grandparents' hometown. I didn't really hear a whole lot of stories about San Pugnano, my maternal grandparents' hometown. But here's the other thing, though. We would call our relatives in Italy on a regular basis and, by the way, my sister, who's 20 years older than me, when she was 24, when my mom died, my sister gave up her entire life temporarily to raise me, to raise me. So my sister and I were were very close and my sister was exceptionally good to our aunt who, who lived with us and in the in the later years of my aunt's life, every single sunday and I mean every my sister would call italy and allow my aunt to spend hours on the phone with with our relatives uh, in relatives in Italy, and I think that was a wonderful thing. So I also got a sense of the Italian home life through these conversations that my aunt would have on a regular basis with them.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's great. That's fabulous. You know, I know my especially my dad's mother, and I didn't know this until just recently that she stayed in such close contact with Italy. But that's really cool that they did that. Now you've been back to the hometown, right? Oh?
Speaker 3:many times. I'm a citizen of Italy. I had my citizenship recognized in 2022. Uh, I have a lot of friends, uh, in pizzeria, italy, uh, I can walk around the streets now, um, and you know, people will recognize me, um, not that I'm anybody special, but I just I. Yeah, I was there two years ago. I was just there, uh, back in september. Uh, the I'll tell you that there's there's of things, something always magical happens and I don't have, we don't have the time.
Speaker 3:I could talk for hours about this, about all the different experiences I've had actually in Pizzoliano, italy, but a couple of things come to my mind. When I was there in 1977 with my dad, that was the first time I was there. Now, keep in mind, you know, my dad lived there in the 1930s. We're walking down the street and I think it was one of his childhood friends. She saw him, she ran up to my dad and gave him a big hug and cried.
Speaker 3:The next time I went there was 1995 for my honeymoon and my wife and I are walking down the street of the old, old part of pitiliano and there was an elderly woman she was in her 90s, by the way looking out the window and my cousin introduces me to her and she says her name was Ida Trevally, the lady that I met, and my cousin said questo è Luigi Paoletti. Now, bob, keep in mind, my grandfather was a virtuoso clarinetist was a virtuoso clarinetist In 1995, this lady who I met was 96 years old. She looked at me from her window, gave me a big smile and went like this, as if to be playing the clarinet. She remembered my grandfather. I mean, those stories are incredible. The little things like that just make these trips.
Speaker 2:I know, I know. I tell people all the time. You know, if you go to Italy, you have to go to the hometown. That's where it's at right.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I mean it's wonderful.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I know what you mean, I know what you mean. My wife laughs at me because I tell her I feel so much at home there and she's half Italian, you know she's half Cesar, but she doesn't have that same draw that I have. And I don't think you know, some of us do, some of us don't, I think you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I only really got into this. I mean, I was always interested in going to Italy. I think I've been there, I don't know seven or eight times. I think I've been there, I don't know seven, seven or eight, eight times, but I really never developed the passion for, for my research and my, my true heritage until I think it was around 2018, 2019. When I was in my attic, I just discovered some photographs and I thought to myself these are, are incredible hundreds of photographs, and I, you know, and I was just kicking myself thinking, you know, I wasted so much of my life not looking and researching. You take stuff for granted, you know, and, uh, I think I'm making up for lost time now.
Speaker 3:I've really dug into this stuff and I've, uh, again, as you know, I've done a tremendous amount of research, uh, and I've been fortunate to be able to give some presentations, do a couple of interviews like this. I've even done some presentations on the topic at Penn State University, and Penn State University added my labor movement presentation to its Lifelong Learning Institute curriculum. So I'll be giving that presentation at Penn State in April of 2025. So it's been rewarding and I'm not looking for any fame or fortune at this stuff. This is just. I like to share the stories.
Speaker 2:No, no, and that's like me. I didn't start until I guess it's about maybe 15 years now or something like that. I always was like a history type of person now, or something like that. I always was like a history type of person.
Speaker 2:But yeah, something, I, you know, something hit me like 15 years ago and and made me want to start, you know, really digging into the to the family and the research and the same thing I I started doing the interviews, I was doing the blog and then I started doing the interviews. I was doing the blog and then I started doing the interviews because I said, you know, so many people have interesting stories and you know, things don't happen by accident, especially when you're over there. I've just amazing things that people have told me that can't be a coincidence.
Speaker 3:I agree with you. I mean, I could go on on and I'm not going to, but I could go on and on with the stories of people. I met, things we have in common. I met relatives, distant relatives.
Speaker 2:I speak to them on a regular basis now yeah, same thing, same thing with me, um, some distant and some much closer than I ever expected to find. I, you know I've said this before, I don't want to bore everybody who's heard the things before, but I, I'm, you know, two years ago I met my father's first cousins. They didn't even know these women existed, uh, and and you know, like, like you said, uh, you know, I walked into their apartment and the connection was like a media yeah, and you know and you know, and the one town and you know shame on me, but the one town that I have not been to in many years was my maternal grandparents' hometown, san Froniano.
Speaker 3:So I said to myself this time I'm going to go there. So I had a car, I drove it's only about 40 minutes from Pitaliano and I reached out to my cousins who live there. They're my second cousins, but it doesn't matter. Cousins are cousins and wonderful, wonderful people, and I think part of the reason I never maybe kept in touch with them so much is because, you know, my mom died at a very young age, when I was young. My mom was only 47. I was only five years old, so I sort of kind of missed that connection. But wonderful people and I can tell you I can't wait to go back and next time I go I'm going to spend a couple days in that town, in addition to, of course, peter leonard so how old?
Speaker 2:how old was your father when, when and when he went back, and how old was it when he came back to the states?
Speaker 3:well, my dad, okay, so my dad was born in 1920, uh, his dad died in 1929 at the age of 52. So my dad was nine years old when his dad died in 1929, at the age of 52. So my dad was nine years old when his dad died. Now, my dad went back and forth a couple of times, ok, and then I believe he came back to the States, I believe in 1937 at age, at age 17. And then he remained here here. He remained here, uh, he, he worked for, uh, cagnoli bakery so he came back.
Speaker 2:He just came back by himself and made his own life yeah yeah, so that's interesting.
Speaker 3:so I don't know when he came back in 1937 I don't know if his mother came back with him at that time. Now he, he wasn't here alone, though. He had his brothers. His brothers were here at the time and his sister was here at the time, so his sister was 16 years older than him, so he was very well taken care of.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so the family was still here.
Speaker 3:But I can tell you my grandmother, his mom, remained peak Leonel through world war II and then it was after the war was over, then. Then she finally moved back to Hershey and she remained here for the for the rest of her life and she never, she never returned.
Speaker 2:Now, do you, do you know if they was she able to come straight back in because my uncle was there?
Speaker 3:my grandparents left my uncle there and he had to wait in Canada four years before he came back. Yeah, so I have all of her immigration documentation. You know, I have the letter of good conduct from the Comuna de Pitoriano. I have letters from my dad and my dad's sister showing that, yes, we are residents here, we bank at the Hershey Bank and Trust Company, and here's how much we have in savings. You know, yada, yada, yada. I have her passport, I have her citizenship card or ID excuse me, it's two different documents and so I don't believe she had a difficult. I don't believe she had a difficult time coming here, because I see all the documents and when they're dated, and I also saw when she arrived here. So I think for her it was a relatively seamless and easy, easy process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and maybe, maybe, because you know she was here before and and being a mother is different than being a son and all of that you know, my, my, my uncle had, he had a weight, even though his, you know, his four brothers were all born in the U?
Speaker 2:S and all served in the, in the, in the army or Navy, and he still had to wait. And my uncle, I had one uncle who served in in the South Pacific, in the Navy, and he was, he was actually at Iwo Jima and and he was in Tokyo Bay when they surrendered and his, his, his grandson, was smart enough to get him on tape, recounting some of the stories, and I found the one that was the most fascinating. He said they were in Tokyo Bay and he looked up and the sky was just filled with planes and he asked an officer, why all these planes? And he said we just want to show them what we have. The war was over, I mean, they were surrendering, but I guess, in case anybody was out there any doubts, so I know one interesting thing too, and you kind of touched on a little bit before, was, I guess, the labor strikes or the labor confrontations, and I guess those were in the 30s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it started in the 1920s and what really got me interested in this topic was a couple things. Got me interested in this topic was was a couple things. Uh, I found a. I found a photograph in my attic in a box of hundreds of photographs, and one of the photographs was from the 1920s and it was taken on what is now west chocolate avenue, right near the italian enc. And it was taken on May Day. Now it's not dated, but I know some of the people.
Speaker 3:I knew some of the people in that photograph, believe it or not, and I could tell about how old they were from the photograph. So let's say it was taken around 1927-ish, okay, and after doing some research, I found that it was a May Day tradition among the Italian laborers, the proletariat, to dress up in their finest clothes and get a May Day portrait taken. That's what this was. These guys are all dressed beautifully in their finest clothes and one guy is holding an Italian American newspaper called Il Proletario, the proletarian, and another fellow in the photograph is holding another Italian-American newspaper called Il Martello, which means the hammer in Italian, and these were arguably very radical newspapers supported by the IWW, the very radical industrial workers of the world union at the time. So I think that's where all this started. And then, coincidentally, my brother-in-law, who I'm very close with my sister's husband my sister passed away in 2008, sadly, but my brother-in-law gave me a copy of her 1973 graduate school research paper, which was on the 1937 labor movement in Hershey, and I read this and her professor made some comments and he said did you ever think about taking this to the next level and researching the Italian-American influence on the strike, socialism and so forth? That's just what kind of triggered me to do do some of this research.
Speaker 3:And it started in the 1920s, very unsuccessfully because the wagner act, which uh allowed for collective bargaining, had not passed yet. And, mr hershey, I don't blame the guy, he was against unions at the time. He said look, if you form a union, you're going to be fired. I mean, the rules were very stringent and and hershey, he was a were very stringent in Hershey, he was a benevolent dictator. The rules were very stringent. But then in the 1930s they made more traction and the CIO came to town. At the time it was not the Congress for Industrial Organization, it was the committee, the committee of industrial organization and the cio came to town and uh, they got the troops riled up. And uh, at the time this all happened, they were protected by the wagner act. The union certainly made some mistakes. Uh, there were numerous issues why they went on strike.
Speaker 3:For as good of a man as Mr Hershey was, the pay was notoriously low. Now, he kept people employed, for the most part during the Depression, there's no doubt about it he did. He was building buildings, the beautiful you know, hotel Hershey. I could go on and on the things he did to keep people employed. However, what really got people going was that the pay was absolutely horrible, about 35 cents an hour at one point, and even for that time that was very, very low. Yet he was investing several thousand dollars a year per orphan in his school and this really upset people. And that, coupled with the horrible working conditions from the supervisors who were lord and master in the plant, and then the overall sense of this paternalistic control over town, it got the workers to jump on board with the labor movement.
Speaker 3:And the Italians did not start the labor movement, but I think the Italians embraced it more than other people Did. They get maybe duped, possibly by some of the labor leaders, of course, because the strike in 1937 ended as a total failure. They did a sit-down strike. The workers took over the factory in 1937. Since then sit-down strikes have been made illegal.
Speaker 3:But they took over the factory in 1937, and it happened on April 2nd and although the strike did not officially end until a couple weeks after that, it effectively ended on April 7th, five days later, when the factory was stormed by company loyalists, local farmers who were losing 800,000 pounds of milk a day, hershey Estates workers. Those were the workers that worked for the Hershey entities that were not the factory, okay, and they went in with weapons. I have behind me on my bookshelf there's a club from the Hershey Lumber Company and the estates workers and the farmers were told by the company to go to the lumber company and pick up weapons, storm the factory, beat up the workers and vacate the factory. And it's well documented that many of these so-called farmers were actually fake farmers. They were paid strike breaking goons that came in from the Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh area and you know I'm not going to blame anybody.
Speaker 3:This was very indicative of the times. It could have been far worse. We could have had a John Rockefeller here, you know, or a Henry Ford, have had a, a john rockefeller here, you know, or a henry ford. I think he was much more brutal um than than what we had here, but nevertheless, at this time, milton hershey was up in age, uh, and some people say well, it wasn't mr hershey, it was it, it was his management.
Speaker 3:Well, nothing happened in this town without him knowing about it. The state police their barracks were located three blocks from the factory. The state police did not show up until 30 minutes after the violence ended. I'm sorry, that was no coincidence. They made the workers, italians and non-Italians alike, walk through a gauntlet and they beat the heck out of them as they left the factory and they beat the heck out of them as they left the factory. There was also a blacklist. It's highly guarded. It's extremely confidential. I have snippets of it Even today.
Speaker 3:Well, the blacklist was created back in 1937. I was given the original blacklist. I handed it back to the owner. I keep the source anonymous. I cite it in my research as an anonymous source. I looked at the entire blacklist. I counted 683 names. 60% of them were Italian, americans, and there were commentary. There was commentary after each person's name. In some cases it would say you know, socialist, communist, active CIO, dumb person, questionable individual, needs to be watched. Participated in picket line, found clubs we're not talking golf clubs Found golf clubs in locker. And it really cast a negative light on the Italian community For decades. For decades, it divided our community.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's something, boy. I would have thought that. I mean sure we know about the strikes and things like that. So so after the strike was over, yeah, did Hershey just. I mean, did they just find all new workers or these people just out completely, or?
Speaker 3:or now it's interesting. So you, you read different, you read different accounts, uh, but I can say honestly and I credit the company for this uh, some of the people who were on strike ended up having supervisory or management careers at the company. Okay, guys like Vitro Tully, who I knew very well, he fought in the South Pacific with my dad. Vitro is in one of the strike photos. Vitro had an outstanding career as a white hat supervisor that's what we called it back in the day in the plant. My neighbor who lived two doors down from me, his daughter, she's in her late 70s. She still lives in the same house, miro, that's his nickname. His name was Vladimir Sini. He was on the blacklist, as was Vitro. Miro had a wonderful career, long career in the factory as a supervisor.
Speaker 3:Eddie Tancredi became the head of plant maintenance in the factory. That is a huge job. And his brother, sam Tancredi, interestingly never worked in the plant. He always had an office job. But Sam Tancredi became the director of data processing for hershey. He loved mr hershey and he loved the man. Highly complimentary of mr hershey, he said he's probably the only genius that ever lived in our town. But sam said it wasn't until he became head of data processing and he saw the numbers. That's when he realized how notoriously low the pay was in the company. So, long term, I believe the Italians did very well. One or two oral histories will say that they were discriminated against after the strike and even fired because of it. Did that happen? Possibly? Uh, but I also think there's two sides. There's two sides to the story. Um, it's interesting and, bob, if I'm talking too much here, you just cut no no, that's a fascinating stuff it's.
Speaker 3:It's interesting in 1943, uh, in, there was a wooden war memorial that was created in the old Italian enclave of Sotera Station and it was called the Sotera Station Honor Roll and it was for the World War II veterans just from that neighborhood two veterans just from that neighborhood, and that now it has since deteriorated. It was wood, it deteriorated. It was replaced by a beautiful marble memorial, uh, in 1957. But that original memorial had 84 names on it, 84 and they weren't just italians, it was mainly italians, but not all italians, some germans, some, some Irish and so forth. And the reason that memorial was so significant is that there were about 50 homes, five, zero, about 50 homes in that little neighborhood that at the time sent 84 men off to fight in World War II.
Speaker 3:I did a cross reference on that list. I compared it to the blacklist reference on that list, I compared it to the blacklist. 14 of those 84 men were blacklisted by the company, not fired, but they were on the blacklist right. These men were not anarchists, they were not communists, they were heroes. 30, 1937, they were labeled right as whatever traders against the company and a few years later they're fighting for the united states, some of them, by the way, you know, we're fighting in italy. Very interesting history. It's a very proud history, but a very complex uh history, history but a very complex history.
Speaker 2:Well, as you know, most of our history is One of the things we're working on is that our history, what we went through as a community, is very, very complex, and you know now. You know Hollywood has made us this whole group of people for lack of a better word, it's almost like we've come full circle, right. They're back to being not very bright in some cases, if you know what I mean. I'm trying to put it politely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, I agree with that, and I think we're all a little guilty. I'm trying to put it politely yeah, bob, I agree, I agree with that, and I think we're all a little guilty. I'm very guilty of it. Look, who doesn't like a good mob movie? Right and listen. I mean, the Godfather is.
Speaker 2:That's a classic.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 2:Like Michael always tells me but there's, there's all, but there's only one godfather right, right, brilliant, brilliant work of art.
Speaker 3:you know, do I get a chuckle and laugh when I watch, like the sopranos? I, I do, I do, but I get it. And I know, you know, I, I gotta tell you. Uh, in 2009, it was 15 years ago, columb Day weekend, there was a banquet in Hershey called the Christopher Columbus 1492 Society Banquet.
Speaker 3:I got invited at the last minute. A guy named Joe Pistone was the guest speaker. It's not a household name, but Joe Pistone is Donnie Brascoe, the FBI agent, and you know, I, I was looking at his book, he signed his book, he gave it to me and, along with all the other people that were there, and you know, I like to read his epilogue in the book and I'm going to. I'll paraphrase I'm not taking direct quotes here. But he said, you know, some people have said to him you know, how can you do this against your fellow Italians?
Speaker 3:He said I didn't look at it that way. He said I did not have an ethnic job. He said these people were criminals. And he said I also did not go in this to change people. I went in this to prosecute people. I am not a social worker. And he said the mafia should not be glorified. Every day these people wake up and say the same things to themselves. He says very repetitive who are we going to steal from today? How much are we going to steal and how are we going to do it? And the glorification of the mob is just wrong. And at its peak, 5,000 Italian-Americans were in the mob. Probably more than that if you include the non-made men. But at its peak, 5,000 Italian-Americans were in the mob. Yet hundreds of thousands of us became university professors and other, but we're still talking about the mafia.
Speaker 2:Right, right, I know exactly what you mean. And growing up, I didn't know. At the time, when I was was younger, I kind of figured, kind of figured some about. I was like 16 or so, uh.
Speaker 2:But you know, these guys, the ones that I knew anyway, I mean they were very, very, very low key individuals. I mean you wouldn't know, and that's why I didn't know, you wouldn't know that they didn't have that. You know that persona that's portrayed in the movies, if you know what I mean, right, and not to say that they were good or bad or anything else, I mean, in some ways they were the ones that I knew. They happened to be very nice guys. You know, uh, uh and uh, I I think, I think you know we're like you said, we're partially guilty of that and and I think that's why michael and I feel very strongly that we, we need to get the message out there to the younger people you know 20s, 30s that this isn't something to glorify. We've done so much in this country since the 1700s that people aren't aware of, you know, and that should be our legacy, not that nonsense.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and he's quite Michael, and I've only ever met him on a Zoom meeting and we've talked quite a few times on the phone. He's a heck of a nice guy. He's quite a filmmaker, yeah, you know he is well. As you know I'm not telling you anything you don't know he's produced two wonderful films recently and you know I'm really pleased to see these Italian filmmakers. Another guy, zach Boliva, b-o-l-i-v-a. Zach Boliva produced the film a few years ago Potentially Dangerous about the Italian Americans who were labeled as enemy aliens of the state by the United States in World War II. And you have Steve Mancini, who runs another podcast, and he just did a beautiful film on the Letterkenny Army Depot in nearby Chambersburg, pennsylvania, which housed Italian American prisoners of war. Some of those guys at least two of them prisoners of war. Some of those guys at least two of them lived in Hershey all their lives after the war. It's really nice to see these Italian-Americans giving honor to their heritage by producing these films.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I have copies of my mother's mother and father. They're enemy alien cards. Ah, uh, wow, and these, you know my grandmother was a 60 year old lady. You know it's like bizarre, but yeah amazing. And then roosevelt realized that he needed to have the italians go fight, so that changed that very quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know so much is. Is is talked about the success of our town, for all the right reasons, based on chocolate and milton hershey all the right reasons. But you know, very little is talked about the contributions by the italian american community to this town's success. And, uh, for all of the above, you know the, the industry, the labor movement and the and the and the war effort. And I mean, you know, bob, I, I, I look at just the people that came from my little neighborhood. All right, I live on west areba avenue, so I'm talking about the people Avenue, so I'm talking about the people who lived around the 100 block of West Arriba Avenue, people whose families did not have the easiest of lives. And just in my neighborhood we produced one of the greatest general managers in the history of the NFL, ernie Accorsi. We produced a renowned anthropologist he still lives in Hershey, by the way A renowned anthropologist, lola Romanucci. A renowned surgeon, domustanin Romanucci.
Speaker 3:The chair of the Board of Governors of the Mayo Clinic, bob Tancredi, our town's first military academy graduate, gary Ponzoli, west Point graduate, fought in Vietnam. We produced two congressional chiefs of staff. We produced Professor Emeritus at CUNY and author, francis Elme, state representatives, a school superintendent. We produced the principal clarinetist of the Harrisburg Symphony Orchestra and his brother. That was Salvador Colangelo, and his brother, frank Colangelo, was first chair trombonist in the Harrisburg Symphony Orchestra. That's not to mention the numerous priests, nuns and business leaders. That was a long list and I apologize, but I don't know any other ethnic group in Hershey per capita that could document this much success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just it. That's stuff that that you know we need to get out there, the people that we, you know we need to be proud of our heritage, be proud of our contribution to the, to the country you know before we go is, um, if anybody wants to learn more about you know your research uh, is there someplace that you go to to find that? Or if they wanted to talk to you about it yeah, if they.
Speaker 3:Uh, I don't. I don't have a website, so I can give you my email address verbally here and you can post it if you want. Yeah.
Speaker 2:If it's okay with you. If you don't mind people that might want to learn more information to contact you, that's fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, more information to contact you, that's, that's fine.
Speaker 2:yeah, it's, it's l piletti l p a I o l e t t I at comcastnet all right, that's fantastic and uh, yeah, like I said, when you know michael and I are working on something and uh, you know we'll, uh, I'll keep you, I'll keep you posted on that and yeah, and oh, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm on facebook, I I post stuff about a italian heritage, uh, you know, every now and then and um, uh, I just want just if I could just just mention a couple of things.
Speaker 3:We do a lot of wonderful heritage things in hershey. Every year, the the Hershey History Center, which has been hugely supportive of the Italian-American heritage they do an Italian festival, la Festa Italiana. Every year the Hershey Italian Lodge is 104 years old. This year. The Men's New Independent Italian Mutual Benefit Society society. Every year, on memorial day, excuse me, yeah, every year on memorial day, uh, we have a memorial day ceremony at our monument on chocolate avenue. We've had one consecutively since 1957. It is the only public land in our township where we fly another flag other than the american flag, and I think that's a testament to the Italian American community as well.
Speaker 2:Ah, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's great and good for people to know. Well, listen, lou. Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Very informative, great stuff for sure. All right, bob, thanks for having me. My pleasure, you, you, thank you.
