Italian Roots and Genealogy
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Italian Roots and Genealogy
Exploring the Bonds of Italian Heritage
Imagine discovering that your family's story spans centuries and continents, connecting you to people and places you never knew existed. That's precisely the journey Rich Di Palma embarked upon, and he shares his remarkable experiences tracing his Italian roots in our latest episode. Rich recounts how his grandfather's Italian songs ignited a lifelong passion for genealogy, leading him to uncover long-lost relatives and delve deep into family records dating back to the 1500s. It's a testament to the power of family stories, chance encounters, and the digital age tools like Ancestry.com that bridge past and present.
Join us as Rich unfolds heartwarming tales of family reunions, serendipitous meetings, and the intricate Italian naming traditions that have persisted through his lineage. We explore how four siblings migrated to New Haven, while one remained in Italy, setting the stage for an unexpected reunion decades later. Rich's 2005 trip to Italy is filled with surprises, from chance encounters with garbage men leading to rediscovered family ties to uncovering the adventurous life of a relative who chose a ship-bound career over the priesthood.
Rich's story is not just about uncovering names on a family tree; it's a celebration of identity, cultural heritage, and the humorous anecdotes that flavor immigrant life. From navigating the challenges of securing Italian citizenship to the emotional resonance of visiting ancestral homes, Rich's journey is both inspiring and relatable. As we listen, we're reminded that the world is smaller than we think, and our histories are a tapestry of connections waiting to be unraveled. Don't miss this heartfelt exploration into the past that reminds us of the ties that bind us all.
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Farmers and NoblesRead about my research story and how to begin your family research.
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Music, music so hi everyone, this is bob sorrentino, from Italian Roots and Genealogy. Be sure to check out our blog and our YouTube channel and please subscribe. And our great sponsors, your Dolce Vita, italy Rooting and Abbiativa Casa. And today is someone that I've had on before who helped translate for me, rich De Palma. So welcome, rich, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me again. Uh, my pleasure. You know, we never really got into your story, uh, when you were helping uh translate. So, um, let's, let's dig into it and um, you know, usually ask people you know why and uh, when did you start researching your family roots?
Speaker 3:OK, so first things first. I guess I could always say I've always, since I was like first grade, probably about six years old. I have always been interested in my heritage and especially also in languages, in my heritage and especially also in languages. And what I should say is that I did not grow up speaking Italian, and the first time I went over my grandfather's house to sleep sleep over when I was six. The next morning, after we had breakfast, he put on these old records and a lot of them were Italian songs and he started singing them. Now I should also say that all four of my grandparents were American born and Great Depression generation. They would have been about 106 years old today, almost all of them. They would have been about 106 years old today, almost all of them, and they were all American born. A few of their siblings were born in the old country, as he said, but they were all born here and they spoke perfect English, of course.
Speaker 3:But when my grandfather started singing some of the Italian songs and then he told me what some of them meant, it was like this man who I had known for the first six years of my life, something, something new, all of a sudden was there and I was became obsessed with the fact that he had this skill. I'm like, wait a minute, you know what this means, this other language. And ever since then I was really interested in languages, obviously in learning Italian, and I really started to get into my heritage. So I've always had an interest in the family tree but I really started really digging deep probably a little over 20 years ago 2000, 2002. I met a distant relative who I didn't know was my relative until I was doing family tree research and she lived one town over and, um, after meeting her, we just sort of went together and just kept going back and back and back and researching uh, one of my grandmother's, going back and back and back and researching, uh, one of my grandmother's, uh branches of the family, and it just, uh, it got bigger and bigger from there.
Speaker 3:I could also say too that you know, with the internet and you know, every five years or so it seems to make great strides of you know what's available, that type of a thing um, I just when more and more records came available, you know I just started digging more and more and more, my wife's aggravated, because the one subscription I'm I refuse to cancel is the 40 bucks a month. Ancestrycom. So because when I get more matches I still want to be able to add a little more. So I do have a cool story, if you want to jump in at all.
Speaker 2:but I do have a cool story actually about um discovering relatives through genealogical research experience italy like never before, traveling with a scheduled group or create your own bespoke tour with friends with philitalyco. Pack your bags and follow phil. That's wwwphilitalyco. Yeah, so I'd love to hear your story, but I know what you're saying about ancestry. I really they really started to overprice themselves, I feel. You know, I turn it on and off, so if I want to take a break I shut it down, so I just I think it's five dollars a tour, or whatever, but they had a few days.
Speaker 3:They wanted to go to where his mother, who was my grandmother's sister she was the last one born in Italy, my grandmother was the baby, she was the only one of the siblings actually born in the United States and so he wanted to see the hometown that we always used to talk about. So when I heard he was going, I made copies of his mother's birth certificate, which of course I had as the family historian certificate, which of course I had as the family historian. You know, I made a family tree and I got a whole bunch of old photos and I made photocopies of those. And I also knew that a distant relative of ours went, probably in the 70s or 80s, to this town and ended up meeting relatives who I never even knew existed. You know the families were in touch, I think up until about World War II. I think I have a few letters that they used to send back and forth to each other, but after my grandmother's siblings passed away there was really no connection anymore. My grandmother's brother died in 1971. And no, I'm sorry, 1969. And I have a Easter card that they sent from Italy saying well, in case you've forgotten about us, we hope you have a happy Easter. And the poor guy was dead for two years, so I think after he passed away.
Speaker 3:There really was no contact for 40 years with these people and, like I said, we found out that my mother's cousin went over and met like some people who supposedly were related, and I didn't really understand how Well my grandmother's oldest cousin who moved to Florida, who I met once in my life. He wrote to me when he found out I was interested and he said that the one cousin left behind was named Domenico Rubano and that his son, antonio Rubano, would have been my grandmother's and his first cousin and supposedly this is their address. So I was like ecstatic, this is amazing, there's actually people. This was like my goal I wanted to find relatives in Italy. So I gave my mom's cousin, who was going over with his wife, all of this information, made copies of everything and he went so they hire a driver and a translator because, like I said, most of us couldn't speak Italian and he went to the exact address that I gave him Modern, I'm sorry, old farmhouse. You could tell this house was very old. Old farmhouse, you could tell this house was very old.
Speaker 3:They knock on the door no answer. Knock on the door again no answer. But the modern house right next door, a man the same exact age as my mom's cousin, comes out and says in Italian Hi, can I, can I help you guys? And so the translator says this is so-and-so from America. They believe that they are. I'm sorry, they're looking for Antonio Rubano. So the man says oh, I'm sorry, he passed away four years ago. However, I'm his son. Can I help you? She said oh, my God. She says they believe they're relatives of your father. And you know, would you be able to give us a few minutes? And he said Sure.
Speaker 3:And so he starts to show all the things that I sent them with. He opens up and he sees his mom's birth certificate and he says wow, 1911, the town Faikio, benevento, 45 minutes inland from Naples, and I'm in New Haven, by the way, north Haven, actually in Connecticut, and so many of us have roots in this area. So he looks at the birth certificate and he says I do recognize the last name, of course, but you know, there's plenty of people in this little town with this last name. Same thing with the family tree. I know that last name, that last name, that last name, but I don't know any of these people. So then he starts looking at the pictures, looks at the pictures oh wow, you know, 1930s, communion, 1920s, new Haven, connecticut. You know, marriage photo, another photo of a family, another photo of New Haven. We don't know any of these people. And then, bob, since you've been doing this a while, I'm sure you've had heard stories like this, but when I tell this to some people they get goosebumps.
Speaker 3:The biggest photo was of the great, great grandparents meaning my grandmother's grandparents, and it was this big oval photo and it was so big I had to copy it in the old office, max days on a big piece of paper and it was folded in half and it was the last one that he looked at. And when he opened it up and he saw the picture, he hit himself like on the forehead and he said, oh my God. And he said come, follow me. And he unlocked the house, the old farmhouse, and there on the wall was the exact same photo. So here it was basically the what do you want to call it? The primogenitor, I guess, this patriarch of the entire family on both sides of the Atlantic, domenico Rubano, and he, all of my grandmother's, you know family, all the siblings descended from this guy and his wife. And to see the same photo just gave everyone chills, knowing like this is real, like we are related, this is the same family.
Speaker 3:And then he opened up an old dresser and he said you know, we don't know who any of these people are, but they've been in this dresser for decades. And my mom's cousin starts taking out. He goes this is my parents wedding. This is my sister who passed away for communion. These are my grandparents. This is the house that we had every single holiday on Lombard Street in New Haven. And he's filling in all these blanks and these people are just like, wow, this is amazing and it was just such an incredible experience.
Speaker 3:His two daughters come out. They're laughing and giggling. One is a month younger than me, the other one is three months younger than my sister. It's almost like a parallel universe. You know same age as everyone is. He's the same age as my mom's cousin. They're the same age, same generation as me and um, just to know that we have this connection was just a wonderful thing.
Speaker 3:A year later, I go over and I meet them for the first time. Two years after that, I stay in their house for a couple nights. Two years after that, I stayed with them, and now, with the FaceTime and all that, every so often we, you know, we just we'll text each other and or do a FaceTime so the kids can see each other and um, it's just really cool knowing that there are people that we are actually related to and they're still over there well, yeah, and and and you know, I've heard similar stories to that, of course, but you know, it parallels almost what I found out, because I had no idea that my father's family was there and who was there, and it was the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2:When I walked into his cousin's house, they were a few years younger than my my father would have been there in their 90s and, uh, they started pulling out pictures of of my family and then I started showing them there, but I, what I did is I made a little book of some of the pictures that I had and things that they had never seen. You you know either, and I've, you know not to bore people who've heard me before, but the most amazing thing is that they had my parents' wedding photo from 1944 with my grandmother's handwriting on the back, and this just blew me away Within the last few days. Two of my cousins blew me away within the last few days. Two of my cousins, um, who, uh, uh, I guess probably, I mean maybe 10, 15 years younger than me or something like that.
Speaker 2:They live in san diego and I was texting back and forth with giovanni and um, I mentioned my, my godmother, and he said I know who she is. I met her. I was like what, when did you meet her Apparently? When he was a little boy. They made a trip to America. I never knew, and he knew my godmother, my dad's sister and, as you know, I'm no, I I'm a big believer and there are no accidents. So in your case, you know, maybe it's persistence, maybe it's luck, uh, but yeah, to walk into the house and see that somebody else told me some similar story like that. They went in and on the wall there was the picture that they saw from 50, 60 years years ago, something like that.
Speaker 3:So these people were born in 1842 and 1846.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. They even have a photo from you, know. I guess the photo must have been from the 1880s or something like that, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, or even maybe around 1900, I would say. They had five children. Four came to the United States, one stayed in Italyaly and the one who stayed in italy one of the daughters she was the one who, um, their last name was cuzano. Of course she, her children, were the husband's last name and that whole branch is descended from her. Um, two sisters and two brothers came to New Haven.
Speaker 3:See, actually, I believe my great-great-grandfather, the guy who everyone's descended from, I think he was quite wealthy and back then, of course, I think, all the wealth was passed on to the male children. So, even though they were pretty wealthy, the daughters they were two of them they went and they followed their husband's family. They also wanted their oldest son, instead of to inherit all this, they wanted him to become a priest. I believe he didn't want to. They had him extremely educated and finally he said I don't want to be a priest and he jumped on a ship and he worked as a translator. That ship went down to Argentina and he spoke Italian, spanish and French. Tina, they ended up coming up to the States and that's where he ended up settling, where all the, where everybody else from his town went, new Haven and his siblings. All four of the five siblings followed him and that's how they got there.
Speaker 3:Now to piggyback on this story. In 2005, I went with one of my buddies to Italy and so I said to him I said, you know, you're all Italian. I said do you have any idea where your family's from? And, like I said, so many of us in the New Haven area, we're all from these same areas. He said I don't know. Let me ask my father. So he said my mom's family is from Skavati, skavar, which is literally the town that my dad's side is from, right next to Pompeii, small world. And then I said but he said my dad's family is from Joya, joya, sanitika. I said that's the town right next to where we're going to go and visit my relatives who I met two years ago. I said let's try to figure out if you have anybody there.
Speaker 3:So before we left, and his last name is Naples, the original last name was Napolitano. So I look up if there's any Napolitanos there. Sure enough, using the Internet, I found a few addresses. We go to the house. Woman said I have a brother in Connecticut. And do you know any of these people? No, do you know any of these people? No, well, it was nice to meet you. So then we go to the next house with that last name. No, but we know a lot of people over in that area of the United States. Okay, so we were a little disappointed because these people had the last name, had the connections to Connecticut, but they didn't really. They couldn't put anything together.
Speaker 3:So finally, my mom's cousin, the one who I had met three years earlier says well, let's head back home, but before we do, um, you got to take a drink from the mountain here, because we all, there's a spigot right on the mountain. It's the best water you'll ever taste. Everyone stops here. We're like what, okay? And we're like it's good water.
Speaker 3:And everybody starts showing up and they're all in a garbage truck comes and the couple garbage men get out and they said so. He says who are these guys? And they all, they all think they know each other, right. So he goes. That's my cousin from America he's visiting. That's his friend. Oh, yeah, and we're looking for his relatives from Gioia. Years ago his family came from.
Speaker 3:Oh, what's the last name? Napolitano, we know them. Follow us, really. We get in the car and they, we start following the garbage truck. They bring us to a house, say ring that doorbell. We think these are your relatives. And they take off. We said is this like real life? Sure enough, we ring the doorbell. A woman answers who are you?
Speaker 3:My great grandfather was Giorgio Napolitano. She said he was my uncle. Come on in. These are my three daughters. They don't live here. They're all visiting because it was Sunday afternoon, right, this is so-and-so. This is so-and-so. This is so-and-so. She said your great-grandfather was actually him. She goes.
Speaker 3:That was my father's brother. He moved to america. I remember seeing him once in my life when I was a little little girl. See this house. This is the house they lived in. See all this. This was the area. It was totally redone. He goes come on, look at the old house. And they start showing us. And this is where your great-grandfather lived. They, he didn't even know. His father's cousin went there years ago and he met these people. They said do you know Tony Carano? He goes yeah, that's my dad's cousin. She goes. He goes. We met him. They said will you promise us you'll come back tomorrow and we can have a dinner for you? And we all ended up going over there and having the most wonderful time and we met these people that one time. I mean, I know you must hear these stories like a dime, a dozen, but like they happen more than you can imagine, and it's just so cool.
Speaker 2:It's not an accident.
Speaker 3:It's not an accident no, I don't believe people want it they want to be found.
Speaker 2:I mean, what are the odds that you go have a drink of water in the garbage, right, that is so unbelievable. You know if, if you know, if you saw that in a movie, you go? Ah, they're just writing that stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And he had no, really no real intention to even try and find his family.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it was literally, because I said, jeff, that's the town right next to my grandmother's family, you know, and it turns out I keep digging, we're not related.
Speaker 2:But me and my wife she's another town right over, you know, and um, it turns out, I keep digging, we're not related, but me and my wife she's another town right over, you know, and uh yeah, well, that's, that's that's like you know, one of my interviews where, uh, you know he, he was his next to last day in in campagna and uh, it was raining and he said there was nothing to do.
Speaker 2:I picked up a magazine and he's from Graniano, not far from there, graniano, right near Piscopo, yeah, and he said I remember when I was 20, 21 years old, my uncle told me, you know, we were from Graniano and I get in a cab and I tell the cab driver, or the car, you know, the limo driver, I want to go to Grignano and we're driving. And he says why? And he said, well, my family's from there. And he said, no, no, you don't want to go to Grignano, you want to go to Lett today, because that's where all the records are. And he said normally I would say no, I'm that kind of guy I would just say, no, take me to where I want to go. But okay, he found his family back to the, to the 1500s, imagine I.
Speaker 3:I held in my hand the book for baptisms to 1622.
Speaker 2:Wow, but um, I found that pretty cool that's amazing, that they well, you know, that's it, they. They don't throw anything away, you know, which is really really cool but the fact that they that they, that they had the old, the old house still with all that stuff sitting in it. You know um well the old house too.
Speaker 3:Here's something cool down in the basement. Um, they had this like pillar holding up, you know, holding up the house, and around it was a millstone and they said they used to tie the donkey to it and they make the donkey walk and they would throw the, they would grind up flour. They grind up wheat and make their own flour down in the basement of this house and they made their own olive oil and things like that. Just really cool experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's really, that's really really my kids are 13, 12 and eight, so the eight year old, still a little, I think. The other two are there. I'm hoping in the next couple of years to get them to be able to. You know, I want to, I want to show them this, you know.
Speaker 2:Because it's important. It's important.
Speaker 3:I was going to Italy every other year, but once the kids came around, that was it. So we need to get back over. I want them to see know where they're from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know that's the one thing that I'm so bummed about, and you know it's a lesson for anybody who's much younger than me go now, you know, because you don't know what you're going to find.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I knew what I found out in the last few years, if I knew this 20 or 30 years ago, I'd have a house there. I would have had much more relationship with with them over there. I mean, like my father's cousins, for example. They're my father's first cousins and we had gone to, we had gone to, uh, sorrento I guess it's almost 30 years ago now, uh, and my father did mention that he had family in tory del greco, but that's, that's. That's kind of all we knew. We didn't know much more than that. So, but if I had known then where and I wasn't into this yet I would have had cousins. I have cousins coming out of the woodwork over there, because my grandmother was the only one from her immediate family that came, all her brothers, uh, uh and uh, I don't think she had any sisters, but they all, they all stayed. They all stayed in italy and to your point.
Speaker 2:You know again, she was the oldest but she was the girl, so she wasn't going to get anything. And you had mentioned earlier about the family link I found first. I found Nico would be my third cousin and I found him first. Well, he's Nicola, named after his grandfather, who's the same age as my father, and they were first cousins. And he was Nicola and he was named after my great grandfather, my father's grandfather, nicola, and Nico's father's name is Roberto, same as me. No real reason for that, because there's nobody in the family that name, but it's just coincidental that we have this chain of people like that you know You'll find you'll like this.
Speaker 3:My grandmother's sister went by her whole entire life, 86 years almost. She went by Fran, but we found out that her real name was Prudenza Okay, prudence. And I guess, when her aunt signed her up for kindergarten, changed her name I don't know why and she, you, ended up calling herself Fran her whole life. Well, come to find out that the woman picture on the wall there, born in 1842, her name was Grudenza Granito. So now my grandmother's sister, towards the end of her life, ended up living with my family and you know, I was about 16, 17 years old, you know, at the time when she passed.
Speaker 3:So from the time I was about 13 to 17,. I used to see her every day and I used to tease her a lot and she would be ornery with a lot of people, but I think with me it was more of like joking around and it was sort of busting each other. Well, I used to sometimes hide in her bed. I used to torment her so much when, when she would get to bed at night and all of a sudden I'd pop up, you know. So I had this very funny relationship.
Speaker 3:So this woman that I knew very, very, very well and I can remember very dearly in my lifetime, and here I am in 2024, she was directly named after a person who was born in 1842. Who was born in 1842. Well, doing the research, I found out that my great-great-grandmother, prudenza Granito. She was named after her grandmother, who was named Prudenza, who was born in 1773. So here I am alive today and a woman I knew very, very well and I have a lot of fond memories of she was born, she was named. She has a connection to the name of a person from before the United States was founded. How cool is that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I found that. I found that with my, my mom's family and Torito, the same thing. You know that. That those the names in that family, uh, there were a lot of uh, dominic's and Luigi's and Francesco's and my, uh, my mom's family. So it's like the same thing. You know my uh, um, you know my cousins, you know my cousins that you know Frank and Lou. You could trace them back the same way back to somebody born, you know, 200 years ago or more. It's incredible and you know funny Well, maybe it's not funny, I don't know, but my mother's uncle, dominic, right, and the dialect he. He had four brothers named Dominic, dominica, dominico, before him. They all died and I always think, like you know, after the third one, maybe you would say, hey, maybe we should change this, but they don't, they just keep going. They keep going.
Speaker 2:And my mother. My mother because she was the third girl. She was supposed third girl. She was supposed to be named after my grandfather's sister, raquel, and she was supposed to be Raquel Carolina. But my grandmother had a fight with her sister-in-law or, yeah, I guess well, sister-in-law or cousin, I don't know and so my mother went. Although her birth certificate says Rachel Caroline, she always went by Caroline and used Rachel as a middle name, which is driving me a little bit of fits trying to get the citizenship. But we've sorted that out now. I had to get her social security application. Who even knew that stuff existed? But yeah, I was able to get it, surprisingly enough. Um, but yeah, that that the naming convention. You know, in one sense that naming convention makes it hard to find some fine people in italy, but the fact that the women don't change their maiden name in a lot of cases makes it makes it easier.
Speaker 3:Sure, oh yeah, you could almost surmise what the name is going to be sometimes. Yeah, it does help. Speaking of which, the citizenship Raffaele from the last interview we did, he actually texted me yesterday saying that if I don't have my Italian citizenship, he said I might want to look into it now because he said they're going to change the laws soon and it's going to be more difficult for Americans to obtain that citizenship.
Speaker 2:Really they're making it harder, boy. I would think they would make it easier, because I don't know, I don't know if they want to keep it a little bit more European.
Speaker 3:I don't know what the reasoning is, but he told me that out of the blue yesterday and he said he'd be happy to look into it for me if I was interested in getting it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you should, especially for the kids. I mean, your kids are young. If they want to go to school there, of course it's peanuts, it costs nothing to go to school there.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:It's like to go um a technical school and somebody told me in milan one of the lawyers I actually worked with it was like 1400 euros a year or something like that. Yeah, the college is definitely cheaper there and good schools too yeah, very good schools, very good schools.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, I'll have to. I I mean, I have a, I have to get um. I sent for my mother's birth certificate because I only had. My sister has her original birth certificate from 1925, but it's got to be certified, so I sent for a new copy and then they, they sent it back. After three months. They sent it back saying that I had to send a copy of a death certificate. This is an Italian birth certificate. Oh, this is here.
Speaker 2:This is here. And and they said because they got, you know you can't get it for privacy reasons and unless you prove that that well, you know she would have been 100 years old. Give me a break, yeah, so now I got to go down and wait another three months for that. And and then I have a um, I have to get the. I'm still waiting for my divorce papers and I said why do they need that? Why do you even care about that? Well, they care. So, um, so I have a couple more things to get before we can do it, but I'm doing it through the courts over there because I can't, I can't hang around for the council that I can't wait that long do you think ultimately, you're going to be able to get it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, as far as the lineage goes, I'm fine, I could do it through both sides, but it's just, you know, collecting these last bits of paper that I need to do, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:have to do with whether your ancestor renounced their citizenship at some point.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a couple of ways. Uh, on my father's side my my, originally they said that if you, as long as you're, uh, like in my father's case, as long as his father did not become a citizen before um 1920, no, as long as if, if my father was born before my grandfather became a citizen, he would have been fine. But then they told me a few years ago, the courts over there, I said, because my father was a minor, he was considered as renouncing his citizenship the same time as my grandfather, which is weird, because my grandmother never on my father's side, never, she never became a citizen. On my mother's side, uh, because I was born after 1948 another one of these crazy things. My brother is not eligible. I am, although my brother would have been eligible under my father, right? Oh no, no, he wouldn't. We'd have the same thing. But because of the 1948 clause, I could go through my, my mother, which is, which is the way we're, which is the way we're doing it and neither one of my mother's parents became citizens.
Speaker 2:So I had to go to Homeland Security and get a, get the statement I had what they have. What they wanted was to see that there was no record of my grandfather either applying or getting citizenship. So so I have that, which they said was the lawyer over there said was a big deal because a lot of people can't find that, don't have that, which they said was the lawyer over there said was a big deal because a lot of people can't find they don't have that, can't find that. So I have that, but it's just these last few records. You know my mother's uh, um, I have to send her her death certificate with the application and then I have to wait for, uh, my divorce papers and get the apostille for that and then after that, um, I'm okay.
Speaker 2:But the good thing about going through the court with a lawyer is like, in your case, they could you do you and your three children all in one petition okay so you would all get citizenship at the same time costs a little bit more money, naturally, everything about money, of course, but uh, like I said, in the long run in your case, if they ever wanted to go to at the same time, it costs a little bit more money, naturally, if you think about money, of course, but, like I said, in the long run in your case, if they ever wanted to go to school there, you know it's.
Speaker 2:If I had the opportunity yeah yeah, you know, I've known a few people who either went you know their families went for a year and they went to school there. Or you know their families went for a year and they went to school there. Or you know my cousin, he went to medical school there in Bologna.
Speaker 3:The oldest university in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know, of course you have to learn Italian, but it's, I mean, I'm doing it mainly so my kids could have it, so that their kids could have it, if they have kids at some point. And uh, you know also, you know, if they ever want to spend a long amount of time there, retire there even and the other thing is you know what?
Speaker 3:I know we're talking about italy, but once you get it, then you go through the whole european union very easily. That's right. My wife's cousin is very uh she, she loves france and um, so they keep picking my brain about how to get italian citizenship, because then if they get that, my wife's family is all italian, then she could be. She can maybe get a house or buy real estate in France.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're open to the whole, all of those European Union countries. So now, so we mentioned ancestry earlier, so did you find anything interesting or something that you didn't know through DNA?
Speaker 3:anything interesting or something that you match of mine through DNA.
Speaker 3:So a year after my grandfather passed away, I found who would have been his second cousin, 90-something-year-old woman who lives down in Norwalk, connecticut, and she would have been through his father's side of the family. Her, my father, my grandfather's dad and her dad were first cousins and we didn't even know these people existed. Well, we wrote to each other. People existed, well, we wrote to each other. And the day after Christmas a few years ago, she invited me and my mom and two of my three kids. The little guy was still a baby, my wife was at work and I said, ma, this woman, nancy, who would be Poppy's second cousin, who I've been in touch with, who lives down in Norwalk. And my grandfather always said too that before his family ended up in New York and then came to Connecticut, he always said that the people in his family originally settled in Norwalk, but he didn't know anything else about it. Well, sure enough, this woman was his relative and they were all in Norwalk, all these people, people we had no idea about. Well, she had us come down to her house on December 26th. She must have had 15 people sitting around the kitchen table there. They put out every dessert you could imagine for us and we stayed there and we brought photos and talked about you know, I don't want to get choked up because my grandfather was like my life we talked about him and who his family was and who her family was and what connections there were, and then she presented me with this info that her son had, through tax records, got the tree back to 1609. And it was just unbelievable and, like you say, no such thing as coincidences no, I don't. I'm from outside of new haven. Norwalk is about close to an hour away from us. I don't know anybody down there and I meet these cousins this one time in my life. Right the next year, I'm singing because I do that on the side too at my buddy, a co-worker's house, for his Sicilian in-laws who were up from Florida. He said, richie, could you do some songs for them? My and, by the way you know, his whole wife's family is from Norwalk. So they got all their cousins up and there's this girl. I sit in there and I say to her I feel like I know you from somewhere. She says I know, I feel like I met you too. I said where are you from? She goes we're all down from Norwalk.
Speaker 3:I said were you at Nancy Allegretta's house and is she related to you, the 93-year-old woman? And is she related to you, the 93-year-old woman? She said oh my God, you're the guy who came down with his mom last year, aren't you? I said why are you here today? She goes Stephanie is my cousin on my mom's side. I said why were you there the other time? She goes. Well, Nancy is on my dad's side as my relative. She's my great aunt. I said oh my God, what a small world. So here, my coworker's wife's cousin first cousin is also extremely distantly related to me on the other side of the family, and I randomly met her the one time in my whole life I was ever down there for something.
Speaker 2:That's so funny, that is real funny. Well, I'll tell you, you know my son because my children are adopted. My son is a fifth cousin of my wife. My wife's father was Puerto Rican and Matthew's father was Puerto Rican, so they're distant cousins, cousins that way. Um. And then one of my fraternity brothers, uh Al uh, his family's from Sicily, from uh, from the, from the Shaka area, and he's my wife's fifth cousin. Wow, no, we believe it.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, that I mean my godson, who I also had my first year as a teacher in class, grew up right down the street. He's showing up as one of my distant matches and I always knew we were from the same town. Um, just other people girl I had in class and I and I remember her family tree project when I had her in class years ago. Sure enough, she's coming up as one of my distant relatives. I mean also the funny thing too, me being a teacher I used to being an Italian teacher I used to give the kids a family tree project and really the only reason I wanted to do it was because I wanted to be nosy. I want to see where all these kids were from. Like I said, in greater New Haven, we're all from these same areas. Well, sure enough, in 20 years of being a teacher, I found out that three of my students were my distant relatives because of that family tree project, and we would have never known, would have never known.
Speaker 2:That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, you know, I had somebody, oh boy, one of my early interviews and he used to do family tree projects with the kids and I had told him, I said, you know, if you ever do this, if you ever want to have the kids write something or, you know, do a project with them, and you know, I published them on the blog or something like that. But it never really happened because I thought that would have been fun for the, for the kids especially.
Speaker 3:you know, yeah, I don't even know if this is illegal or not, but I did it anyways. I just created a database, not with the kids names, but with just the last names, all the surnames, year after year and where they were from in italy. So I don't think that's illegal. No, I don't. I have this compilation of just all these greater New Haven Italian names. The funny part is 80% of them are all from the Campania region, but we do have people from every single part of Italy. There really were so many Italians. I think Greater New Haven was considered the most Italian county of the United States percentage-wise and they literally, you know, 80% of them came from that same area. However, that other 20% was from all over Italy Venice to Piedmont, to Sicily, sicily to Calabria and everything in between. You know, there were not nearly as many, but quite a few people from northern Italy, and you could see it in my students' family tree projects. It really was quite amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really, really something. And do you know what businesses were in New Haven at that time? That?
Speaker 3:brought so many Italians in. Yeah, we have a factory here called Sargent's and it was right on the water in New Haven and I think it might even go back to the 1880s. Well, the original owner, mr Sargent, himself, supposedly had a villa in Amalfi and at that height of the Italian immigration there, everybody from the Amalfi Coast basically settled in New Haven, and they say it's because sergeants would offer them the job. He had people over in Amalfi and I guess they'd say show me your hands. And if they were calloused hands and he knew that these were hard workers he said you have a job waiting for you in New Haven if you want it. And that whole entire Amalfi Coast. They all ended up in New Haven.
Speaker 3:And the ones who didn't like we have a famous Italian bakery around here, lucibello's, I guess. Originally he went to Manhattan and he tried opening a bakery. It didn't work, it couldn't keep the business going. And finally the people said to him all your paisans are in New Haven. We'll patronize you. We know what you're capable of making. Why don't you open up a bakery in New Haven? Forget New York. You think New York's the biggest, the best. He came here and here, 113 years later, lusabello's is still the number one Italian bakery that we have now over here. Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 3:Yes, amalfi Coast. They all came here because they had those jobs through Sargent's, that connection. And then, of course, you know, people went where people before them went, like when you had Rafael Leon, everybody from Castellamare, they all went to New Haven and there is a small I don't know what the word I'm thinking of small portion of them did go to Brooklyn also and I think maybe later, but the original Stabiesi, they all went from New Haven, I'm sorry, from Castellammare to New Haven and Connecticut because it's so small. I mean, you know where I have a cousin-in-law married to my cousin, actually the son of the people who went to Italy and saw the picture on the wall. His wife is Sicilian and her family is from Middletown area of Connecticut, just about 25 minutes up from my house. They all are from one town, mullilly, sicily. If you go to Torrington, connecticut, they're all from Basilicata, that area near Potenza. You know these different little enclaves went to different places but New Haven attracted so many Italians that specific parts of New Haven they all went to, all went to.
Speaker 3:Like the people who went from the town that I was telling you about before, where we saw the picture, they all went to Fairhaven, which was a certain part of New Haven, the people from the Amalfi Coast. They all went to Worcester Square, which was another little part of New Haven, because New Haven is not a big city at all. The people who went from a different area of Italy, they all went to what's called the hill section, where my wife's family went from, went to and you're talking a few streets over. But if you were from that part of Italy just a little bit more inland of the Campania region, you ended up in Fairhaven in New Haven. If you were from the coast the Campania region you ended up in Fairhaven in New Haven. If you were from the coast Malfe, castellammare you all went to Worcester Square where our famous pizza places like Pepe's and Sally's and stuff are. So even where you were from in Italy dictated what part of little tiny New Haven you were going to end up in. That's so interesting.
Speaker 3:And then you can even take it to the next generation. When they left New Haven and they moved to the suburbs I don't know if you know any of these towns it seems like all the people who were in Fairhaven moved out to Hamden. All the Markajani who went to New Haven, they all went to West Haven. Who went to New Haven, they all went to West Haven. And all of the Worcester Square people they all went into East Haven because it was the first part and they were used to that water. And East Haven also has a beach where these other suburbs are more inland and where I live in North Haven we sort of got a mixture of everybody. But even the next generation moving out of New Haven, going into the suburbs, it had to do with where their family was from, in Italy. So it's, it's, it's. You can go on and on with this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I know, and that's it's. It's just so interesting. You know, all these little enclaves all over the United States that you know, I've, I've learned of, you know, through doing this, I had no idea that there were so many different places that had little Italy's, or where people went to and why they went there, and as far away as San Francisco, of course we understand, but places like Iowa and Colorado, they went early.
Speaker 1:A lot of the times in Colorado. Yeah, they went early.
Speaker 2:They went early. Yeah, they went early, they went early, you know. So it's a really, really something when you try to put that all together.
Speaker 3:Do you realize too, that there's a significant Italian population in West Virginia?
Speaker 2:Yes, I learned that recently. Yes, I know, I learned that recently.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, when I went to the National Italian American Foundation, niaf. They used to have a gala every year. I think they still do it. I went nine years in a row, from when I was college age and then after, and I remember they used to attract people from all over the country. This guy, al Rolandi, from somewhere in Milwaukee he was instrumental in putting on the biggest Italian festival in the country. You think San Gennaro is. This Festa Italiana out in Milwaukee is like the biggest thing. And then I remember they also had a huge festival down in West Virginia and I'm like who the heck is in West Virginia? Well, they all started talking to me we're from West Virginia, we're from West Virginia. They all started talking to me we're from West Virginia, we're from West Virginia. They all had the southern accent and I guess it attracted. They were all attracted there because of the coal mines and so many of the people who worked in the coal mines were from Italy.
Speaker 3:My grandfather's friend, this northern Italian guy, albino. He passed away about 10 years ago. He was older than my grandfather, who would have been 106. Lived in Connecticut for many years, was from Italy, but he always told us that he was born in Minnesota. I said what, albino, you came from Italy 40 years ago. I said what do you mean? You were born in Minnesota? He said yep, my father's family moved when I was born. They moved out for the copper mines and then they moved back to Italy and I came back here in the seventies and so I'm like it's just, it's amazing, they really are all over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's like one of the guys that I interviewed, Rock LaManna. His family was originally Chicago, they went to St Paul and his father was a real entrepreneur and he worked with 3M and he wasn't like an engineer or anything like that, but he came up with all of these different projects for 3M, you know, back in the I guess, in the late 50s, 60s, 70s and things like that. It's an incredible story, you know, and there's just so many of us and that's you know. That's why you know, when you, when you see the hollywood things with the mafia and everything and all of that nonsense, they, they never portray us as these hard-working, entrepreneurial, inventive people. Uh, and it makes me I almost said you know what, but makes me nuts I get it, I agree with you.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, lots of times we're our own worst enemies too. That's true. A lot of us, you know, perpetuate those stereotypes. I don't think you and I have to worry about that. Where we live In Connecticut and in New Jersey there's so many Italians that you know it's not the case, but it's the areas where you know. If you are out in iowa and they look at you like you're quite exotic with that italian last name, then they're the ones who just they wouldn't get it you know, yeah yeah but um?
Speaker 3:do you know why there were so many italians out in um detroit?
Speaker 2:area.
Speaker 3:no, detroit, I don't know Because after 1924, when they sort of almost closed off Ellis Island and they really wanted less Southern Europeans to come into the United States, they made those very restrictive immigration laws. They all went to Canada. The Italians kept coming, but they just didn't come here, and so a lot of them went to Canada and many stayed in Canada. But then in the 50s, when it got a little bit more relaxed, they said we're really going to go to the United States, and instead of coming in through the East Coast a lot of them their first stop was down through Michigan and they went into Detroit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wellroit, yeah, my uncle. My uncle who stayed behind when my grandparents came over. He was he was uh a little kid and stayed with his grandparents. He had to spend like four years with his family in uh canada um to wait to be able to come.
Speaker 2:And you know my uncles, he had four brothers who fought in world war ii. He still had to wait in canada for four years and it it didn't matter, uh. So you know my uncles, he had four brothers who fought in world war ii. He still had to wait in canada for four years, it didn't matter, uh. So you know that's. You would have thought that, hey, all right, he's got families. But you know, my grandparents were here from 1915, uh, and he hadn't seen his parents in, um, something like 35 years and he had never met his brothers and sisters. Wow, yeah, yeah, because they didn't go there. And he, you never met his brothers and sisters. Wow, yeah, yeah, cause they didn't go there. And he, you know he didn't, he didn't come here, and yeah, and you know, I, I learned this. I mean, I knew that they came later because all my cousins had Italian accents and everything like that. But you know that's what happened. He worked on a mushroom farm in farm in Canada for like four years or something like that, and then he brought the family over.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you one last funny story before we go my oldest cousin who's still alive, she's like 92 or 93. She was 18. It must have been about 1949 or 50 or something like that. And she came over and my uncle lived in a, I guess, like a boarding home but it was all men. They all guys worked on the mushroom farm and you know she hated it. And my mother's oldest sister and her husband went to visit and my cousin Mary was very upset and everything. So my uncle Nick says you can't stay here, you, you come with us. So they, they, they fixed, they took out the back seat of the car and stuck my cousin in there and he drove her.
Speaker 2:He drove her over the bridge through Niagara Falls. My other uncle and my aunt wouldn't go in a car with him. They walked over the bridge. Right. So now she's in America, right, she meets her husband here, but she can't get married because she's not supposed to be here, so they had to smuggle her back to Canada. So, she could come eventually, get married and come back illegally.
Speaker 3:Imagine Well the woman I told you about before, who I used to tease her my grandmother's sister. She was the last one born in Italy, and when the family went to Niagara Falls, she would be. She was very tiny too already. The police officer said why are you traveling? We're just going to go see the falls. Where are you coming from? Connecticut? Okay, who's that little girl bending down in the back seat? She always thought she was going to get deported for some reason. She came to the United States when she was two years old, and yet she was always nervous she was going to be sent to Italy.
Speaker 2:Well, they had to have my cousin. They had to get her to because she had an Italian accent. The way the story goes is they had to make her practice saying she was from New York so they could get her back to Canada and leave her there.
Speaker 2:And then she came back. Well, rich, this has been a lot of fun for sure. Great stories, and again, you know, it's so interesting to hear these stories where you know you're someplace and all of a sudden, somebody shows up and says I know where you're supposed to be. That's incredible. That's really incredible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, my pleasure, I appreciate you having me, and anything in the future I could help out with, let me know I will. I will, I will.
