Italian Roots and Genealogy
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Italian Roots and Genealogy
Family, Heritage, and the American Dream
Nicola DiGuglielmo's journey from Andretta, Italy to New Jersey is nothing short of remarkable. Picture a family driven by love and determination, uprooted from their small Italian hometown in search of a brighter future in America. Nicola reflects on his father's struggle to create opportunities in a land where none existed, and how this relentless spirit paved the way for Nicola's successful medical career spanning nearly four decades. In this episode, we uncover the layers of his personal and professional life, highlighting the importance of Italian heritage and the meaningful contributions of Italian Americans.
From the humble beginnings in Andretta to the comfort of Long Branch, Nicola paints a vivid picture of his family's transition from communal living to the modern American lifestyle. We explore the trials and triumphs of this significant shift, touching on memories of his hometown's transformation and the entrepreneurial spirit of its younger generation. A poignant visit to the family cemetery and the stories from a 97-year-old cousin, acting as the family historian, add depth and richness to Nicola's narrative, offering listeners a heartfelt connection to his roots.
We also traverse Nicola's fascinating family history, uncovering stories of theological vocations and political ambitions. Discover how these diverse legacies influenced Nicola's path in medicine and his daughter's venture into politics. As we discuss the role of the church and the enduring traditions of his ancestors, Nicola's reflections offer a sense of belonging and continuity. To round off, we guide you through the cultural marvels of Florence, personal ties to historical families, and the allure of Milan's vibrant scene. This episode is a treasure trove of insights and memories, blending cultural heritage with practical travel tips for anyone enchanted by Italy's rich history.
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Hi everyone, this is Bob Sorrentino, from Italian Roots and Genealogy. Be sure to check out our blog and our YouTube channel and our newsletter and our Facebook page. Youtube channel and our newsletter and our Facebook page, and also our great sponsors, your Dolce Vita Italy, rooting Phil Italy and Abiativa Casa. And today I'm thrilled to have one of my brothers from the Italian club here in Ocean, nicola DiGiuliamo, and so welcome, nick. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Did.
Speaker 2:I get the name. You call it Di.
Speaker 1:Guglielmo Di Guglielmo, yeah, yeah, my Italian.
Speaker 2:That's okay, that's all right. You're the Amitigam, I'm off the boat. Italian, I'm sure you've heard worse. Oh, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:So, no, it's great to have you here and um, pleasure. So you know, tell us a little bit about I know you were born in Italy, but before we get to that, tell me a little bit about you know when and why you started doing your family research?
Speaker 2:Well, I was born in a small little town, andretta, italy, and, it's most interesting, in the Campania region there were limited possibilities for employment.
Speaker 2:So my father actually left the hometown to be able to get a job in the United States and he had a brother-in-law that had a sand and gravel pit. So under two conditions he had sponsor of employment as well as being a POW of the World War II. He came to the United States when I was months old, so I actually did not meet my father until I was about five and a half plus years old and that's how we started the American dream. But I grew up in Long Branch, new Jersey, and worked my way all the way through to college, to undergrad, graduate school and eventually to medical school, and I practiced medicine in Ocean Township for almost four decades until I retired about a year and a half ago. So that's the general synopsis of me, and I'm proud to be of Italian heritage and I know some people will not say that they're Italian American, but I'm Italian by birth and American by most of my life.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, that's funny. You say that because you know, growing up, when somebody you know in the fifties and sixties, when somebody here would ask you what are you, you would always say we would just say Italian, and then that kind of that kind of morphed into Italian American. And now and then, when you go to Italy, you come back and you realize you're just American.
Speaker 2:That's correct. That's correct. So it's a pleasure, I mean, and thank goodness our ethnicity has been able to ascribe up, grows. It's important to know that. You know it's not just the stereotypical. You know Italian from New Jersey, so we've accomplished a lot of things in our society, everything from professionals to non-professionals, and I think that voice needs to be heard and I think that voice needs to be heard.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I do this, because after the Godfather movies and things like that, we kind of got stereotyped. I mean, I didn't grow up with that stereotype per se, not at all, but we kind of got into that slot. And that's why I do some of this, because I want to get the younger generations to understand exactly what you just said, that we have strong roots, that the people who came here whether they came when my grandparents came in you know, 1915, or whether they came when your dad came much later they worked very, very hard to get where they were. And we're not just, you know, people who talk with a heavy accent, with made up words or mafia, if you know what I mean. Correct.
Speaker 2:And that's such a minuscule number. I mean, you know if, uh, you know, here in new jersey there are lots of, uh, italian surnames and, and you know, that I think is perhaps, um, a blessing, and in the same same token, you know, it can wind up showing the diversity of our heritage. You know, it's not just in that very small, unannounced mobster type thing, it's not, and it's not just in the trade, it's not just in waste management, it's not just on the docks. You know we've contributed a lot and I'm proud to be a part of that.
Speaker 2:So, if anything, I was fortunate enough to be an Italian American physician in Monmouth County and we in fact had a small little unofficial club and it was of the Italian Americans from a small region of Avellino, which, avellino, is a province in the region of Campania, and it was kind of a neat thing. You normally don't hear about that. And then that evolved so many years ago we even set up a group of physicians of Italian origin in Monmouth and Ocean Counties, which was something that's unheard of, and it's called the Fratelli Medici, and I'm proud to say that we're about 50 strong. It's difficult to maintain that because we're all busy in our own little worlds and it takes an active participation to be able to keep that going. So those are the things that I think need to be publicized a little bit more, because you don't think about that as much. You know in the true professions that contribute and make a difference in our society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now did you go to medical school here or in Italy? Because you know, I Neither Neither. So where did you go to medical school? Here or in Italy? Neither Neither.
Speaker 2:So where'd you go? I went to school undergrad at Rutgers College in New Brunswick and I started the first year that Rutgers College went co-ed, which was a lot of fun. And then I had a little opportunity. I was contemplating entering medical school and I started my master's program at Rutgers, newark, and I actually started working in the hospital administration aspect of it. But I felt that that was not my calling and I was able to have an opportunity to get into a private Catholic medical school in Pamplona, navarra, spain. And I embarked on that journey. And it was a heck of a journey because, thank God, I had had minimal amount of Spanish in high school, but I dove in completely and learned another culture. So here I was a little Italian boy from the mountains of Italy, little Italian boy from the mountains of Italy, grew up in Long Beach, new Jersey, and went to medical school in Spain. A true, true life-changing experience.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Yeah, I grew up well, we grew up in the same town. Dr Visco is about 10 years older than I am, but he went to medical school in Italy and he became a cardio surgeon and I think he's the chief of cardio emeritus in a metropolitan hospital in New York. And then my cousin Gene, he's a psychiatrist down in Egg Harbor and he also went to medical school in Italy and he's got some great stories about how they give the tests in Italy because it's all oral.
Speaker 1:And he obviously he had us do these oral tests in Italian and he said the way they did it there was really really interesting that they might have four or five students in taking the test, that they're all tested at the same time. And, um, he said if the, if the professor asked you a question, if you were the first one, you would say what you knew, and then the second one he would tell you you had to expand on that. So if you were the fourth or fifth, you would say what you knew, and then the second one he would tell you how to expand on that. So if you were the fourth or fifth guy, you had to come up with something new, which he said was like really really tough, that's tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, our concept was different. We did have a select few oral exams, but the vast majority of them were in Spanish, so you had to compose your thoughts in that language. So that did make it a little bit more challenging. So what I did was I had my texts, which were in English, and then you had to also purchase some of the Spanish publicized books which were from some of the professors themselves. They were some of the professors I had there were brilliant.
Speaker 2:They're of a sect of Catholicism called Opus Dei, if you might be familiar with that, and they were totally, totally dedicated to their profession, their career, as well as the religion. So truly true, true scholars, and they dedicated themselves specifically for the profession. They would write their own books and you couldn't just get by with your English texts altogether. You'd have to wind up getting those because there would be questions from their little books and if you had not read those you'd be in trouble. So a little different take than some of the strict oral exams that a lot of my colleagues had in Italy.
Speaker 2:So it was a different setting but nonetheless, life, life changing, and I think it it helped me become a well-rounded physician when I did come back to the States. It gave you a general idea of how people are in other societies, and, and plus, I was exposed to the national health system that we have in Spain. I mean the thing that Americans are all clamoring works. They would not not be as enthusiastic about that idea. You know it's only if you're immersed in it do you get that idea. But that's a that's a. That's a separate issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to your point, you know, we lived in England for two years and it is. It is different living someplace rather than just visiting and uh and um, I I could use, oh, while we were there I could use either the national health system or I could use my insurance. So I kind of had the best of both worlds when I lived there. Not, yeah, we were a younger, not that we needed any of that. So you mentioned earlier that your dad was a POW. So was he a POW in America?
Speaker 2:No, no. So I'll give you a little historical perspective. In the 30s my father, who lived in the small town of Andretta in the province of Al-Aleino, was unable to earn a living. So he was exploring different avenues and one of the possibilities opened up a whole new world in Ethiopia. Back then Ethiopia, otherwise also known as Abyssinia, was an Italian colony and and there was a great need for, for, for, for employment there. So my father, my father, chose to leave, mind you, a little tiny town and head out to Ethiopia, and that's where he started working. So he was working in a flour wheat mill for many years up until World War II broke out. Two um broke out and then, at that point they needed italian soldiers and he was drafted into the italian army and he fought for italy in ethiopia and, and sadly, uh, they were captured and became POW prisoners. So for the entire duration of the war they were held captive and initially all their belongings were taken by the English and were told that they would be returned at the end of the war. Well, that never materialized, because after the end of the war in 45, my father left penniless and went back to the hometown in Italy and tried to make a living. He eventually met my mother, who had lost her fiance during World War II, and they got married in 1948 and tried to make a living. My sister was born in 1949.
Speaker 2:My father continued to work a little bit. He had a little metal shop, did little odds and ends but just could not make ends meet. And that's when he explored the possibility of work in the United States. So my father, I guess, was a maverick. He just went wherever he was able to get employment. And so I was born in 54 and my father left for the States in 55 and started working for my uncle in a sanding gravel pit, Monmouth County, and my father would send money back to the hometown. That's how we survived, my mother, my sister and I, in our hometown, and finally my father was able to save enough money to purchase a home and pay for our trip from Naples to New York Harbor in 1960. And that's when I finally met my father for the first time. I mean I was months old when he left, so it was certainly an experience.
Speaker 2:So we made that journey from Naples, italy, to New York Harbor, and during the month of March it was cold as heck. My mother and sister were seasick from day one. So there I was, the little. I don't know what the heck I was, but I was on my own. I would have to get up, walk around the ship, I'd have my meals upstairs, while my mother and sister were just confined to our cabin because they just could not make it. But thank God, we did make the trip over. It was on a ship called the augustus and, uh, it was 10 days of one heck of a trip and and uh embarking in from, uh, from naples, italy, and we made it to new york harbor and I'll never forget, because there it was. We got it very, very cold March night and and traveled from New York Harbor, meeting my father and my uncle, and we went to our little, our little home that my father had bought and purchased, and and that's where we lived all the way up and through college, but the most interesting travel.
Speaker 1:And that's where we lived all the way up and through college, but the most interesting travel.
Speaker 2:So what did you think when you saw the Manhattan skyline? Well, at the time, to be honest with you, I was so tired and it was breathtaking, because I was cold. All I could see was a ship and I was a little frightened, because in our hometown, oh goodness, we had no buildings, we had nothing, we didn't have ships, we didn't have anything. It was overwhelming, to be honest with you, and I was frightened, I was cold, fatigued. So it was a combination of feelings, but I, to give you an indication, we was a first.
Speaker 2:I never had my own personal room. I mean, in our hometown there was just one bedroom and all of us slept in the same bedroom. We did not have running water in our house, we did not have a bathtub, we didn't have a shower, a bathtub, we didn't have a shower. We had an indoor encased bathroom where we had a large cistern of water which we would bring indoors from the well. And here in Long Branch, I had my own private room, my sister had her own private room, my parents had their own private room, we had two floors, running water, we had heat. We didn't have any of those things. It was mind-blowing, from modest beginnings to suddenly a whole vast array of amenities that I was not accustomed to, so it was overwhelming I think that's the best word that fits that and and as a little person. Oh my gosh, it was.
Speaker 1:It was, uh, it was one heck of a one heck of a trip I remember, I remember when, uh, because my uncle came in, they came in the 19, they came in 1950, he had come in 1950 to canada. Then the family came in 1954 and I remember, uh, my uncle wanted to go back just to visit and my aunt said, no, I'm not going back there, they don't. You know, uh, same thing. You know, they had this little house with same one bedroom and my cousins told me that, uh, my aunt and uncle and the baby what the you know, the newest baby would be in the bedroom and everybody else was in the other room, which was the living room, bedroom, kitchen, everything else no, I mean it.
Speaker 2:Uh, you, you know totally different thing. And we didn't have. We had a la bomba, which was a butane, which is a version of propane, and that's how we were able to to cook our meals, but but limited, limited, I. You know, I was fortunate. I've been back to the hometown since then and we did sell the original home and the new owners have totally, totally modernized it. So now there's, of course, running water. We did have electricity, by the way. Running water, we did have electricity, by the way, we were not that destitute and it's just amazing how you have that concept of how things were and then how things have evolved. So things in the hometown have changed, but sadly, my hometown in Italy, which originally had close to 5000, now is probably less than half of that. It's got zero growth and it's just heartbreaking because there really are no, no appreciable means of making a living, for lack of better words.
Speaker 1:I know it's so sad. When we went back to one of the places in Calabria, it was the same thing. It was just this whole street of homes that they still had furniture and stuff in it, but nobody was living there. And and I said, you know, they've either moved north or they've gone to germany to work or other places to work and they still own them, but there's, there's just nothing there.
Speaker 1:It is, um, it is to you know, like you said, it is heartbreaking to see that, but I just interviewed a young girl. Um, I can see that, but I just interviewed a young girl from Calabria who they revived the silk industry in their town and it was really some story that the town had a farm, I guess, or orchard, of mulberry trees, 3,000 mulberry trees, and these four young, young people. She's like 33 now, but she was 23 when they started this, uh, and you know they employ like 10 women around calabria to to do things, but, uh, it's quite a story that that, uh, and and when we were in, um, uh, capricota, there was was two young, two brothers, who were reviving the lentil farming and bean farming. So there are little spurts here and there, but it is sad that you go to these places and you see that there's no work there or they have to move out.
Speaker 2:No, it truly is heartbreaking. We had olive groves and you know we used to pick them. Now, when we went back a couple of times, you know, sadly they're just rotting on the trees because no one either wants to pick them or it's not efficient to do it. So different times, to say the least. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So now, when you started doing your ancestry, when did you start? And you know what you well to do?
Speaker 2:I, I remarried about six years ago and my wife has a um she, she just has a natural knack for this and um she, she actually encouraged and uh and would start asking questions. So, um, she wound up going on a website and started pulling out information and then, through different family members, I was able to access a little bit of information from some of our family members. And one of the ways believe it or not that we got a lot more information is we went back to Italy about five plus years ago and we started asking family members questions and don't think it's morbid, but we went to the local cemetery and everybody does that. Yeah, I mean, if you mention it to someone it sounds just a little dreary, but it's not because and we took pictures because there will be a vast amount of information on those, and in the hometown there's only one cemetery and things seem to have been centralized, I mean, in that cemetery and that's where we were able to gather a tremendous amount. And God bless my wife, she was able to sort things out and be able to assemble them in a cohesive manner and we've gone back as far as at least 150, couple hundred years, couple hundred years.
Speaker 2:I'm fortunate enough I have a first cousin who is 97 years old, god bless him, and he's still sharp as a tack and he's almost like the family historian and still continues to do work and he's been able to provide additional amounts of information along that order. He lives in Avellino proper. Even though it's called the province of Avellino, there's the city of Avellino and he tends to go to the hometown as well. So fortunately he's been able to maintain a lot of that. He sent us books. We're fortunate enough that we have a family relative who's made a phenomenal name for himself, hematologist at the University of Naples, and his work and research was on something called erythroleukemia. I don't want to overwhelm you with medical facts, but it's something that's world renowned and yet in our hometown there are little well, there's, I wouldn't say there's not a statue, but there's one in a local hospital nearby in his honor and there are placards in his honor. So my, my cousin has been able to to bring a lot of that to surface and he's sent over books that that are in his honor. So so that's kind of our little claim to fame, not that it's anything, and that that professor Diego Gilmour, actually, to give you an indication.
Speaker 2:They started out in Andretta and his parents had immigrated to Argentina, and you may be very well familiar how there's a most considerable sometimes over 50 percent of of the Argentinians are of Italian heritage. But they couldn't make it there in Argentina. He came back to Italy and he became a physician professor at the University of Naples. So the whole point of this being that we, we started off in a small little town and made our impact worldwide. So, and I think if there's anything that bespeaks our, our italian ancestry, is that, uh, we have made great strides and great impact in our society, and I think we'll continue to do so. And if we can get that across to our children, grandchildren, I think that would serve a great, great purpose for all of us. So I didn't mean to go on a philosophical tangent, but that's huge. That's huge.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's fine, fine, and you know every everything goes on this podcast. We don't care, uh, but you know I would love to talk to him and I'll tell you why. Because you know, we were in avalino, um, two years ago, um, because I'm a direct descendant of prince marino caracciolo, um and um, they were just fantastic to us there. I mean, they brought us into the Palazzo and they had people dressed from the 1500s and they were playing trumpets, and I'm standing there like this doofus New York guy who doesn't have a clue, and they took us, um, I mean, they just they took us through the whole city, uh, and they were just, uh, just fantastic. It was just such a great visit.
Speaker 1:We went to, I guess, the, um, uh, the, the, the current the, the plazo that was built by my seventh great-grandparents is where they took us and it's now the town all over. Oh, that's inspiring. And then they took us to where the original Palazzo was, down the hill, and they told us that my great-great-great-great-great-grandmother, who was my first name, escapes me now, but she was a Pignatelli uh, wanted to be up on the hill, um, and also, it was a little bit closer to naples, not much, but a little bit uh, but they showed us where the um, the original palazzo was, and then also where they had their um I guess it was like a hunting lodge type of place or something like that and they dressed me as Prince Marino Nice I still have. They gave me the robes and everything.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:So I would love to talk to your cousin, man, if we could ever do that, it would have to be all in Italian. Well, you could translate.
Speaker 1:You'll have to okay, because I don't know what's going on, but all right but, but that's a deal and we also they, they also, uh, there was, uh, just just just short way from the duomo was uh, an artist, uh, and they brought us into his workshop, I guess, because he was probably in his 70s, uh, something like that, uh, maybe maybe close to 80, uh, and he showed us his workshop and everything. And then we met. Well, he just found out, he passed away this uh uh who was 96 and for 45 minutes played the accordion and sang and was just this vibrant, lovable guy, you know, maybe five foot tall.
Speaker 2:And uh, we just, it sounds like an unforgettable experience.
Speaker 1:Uh, we just loved it there. We just loved the. Avelino was just just fantastic and they treated us, you know, they treated us like family.
Speaker 2:But you know, that is one of the indescribable features of being Italian. I mean, I still remember there were times that we went into the hometown during the summertime and, as you know, there's one main street in the little hometown and as soon as someone would see you, they would just pretty much stop the car in the middle of the street and come in there and just embrace you. I mean, you don't see those things here in the States. I mean, it's a totally, totally, totally different way of living, but nonetheless appealing, and you won't know it until you actually experience it, because to to mention it is one thing, but to live it is a totally different bargain I know, I tell everybody, you know you have to go back to the hometowns.
Speaker 1:That's where it's all at, um. So in the research, did you, did you find anything like like wow, you know, this is something I never would have thought this I'm sorry the they're. They're mowing the lawn outside, did I find that when you were doing, when you did the research, did you find anything that really blew you away, that you never would have expected?
Speaker 2:um, Well, I mean, here's the setting. My father came from a family of 10. And you know, to learn about each individual was a little tough. I mean because there my father was actually a twin and it's kind of interesting how his twin died months old. And, as my father says, the twin that died was the good-looking one and he wasn't the good-looking one. So they all picked up the good-looking one and that's why, why that one died. So I mean we can laugh about that. But but sure enough, we were able to access that. You know some of that information will. You know, we kept it in there. We can smile about it, but I'm trying to think of any standouts.
Speaker 2:So, the two families my family is de Gaulle-Galmo, my mother came from Acochella. The number of the difference of the two families, the Acochellas, my mother, they tended to gravitate more towards the theological. Some of them became priests and monsignors and whatnot, whereas on my father's side, au contraire, they either went into the political world or into business. There's one that I was a veterinarian. So it's so interesting how the two parents, my parents, were from pretty much a diabolically opposite spectrums. And here I am, I'm one of the products and I guess I don't know, I got the medical prowess in me, but now my daughter, on the other hand, is into politics. She works in Washington DC on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 2:So it's amazing, it spurs those kinds of thoughts in your mind. As you know, which genes did they wind up getting, you know so, so those are the things. But we were pretty much small, local and, other than my father, you know, not too many people uh went too far. They, they, they tended to stay locally, um, which which is something that has totally, totally evolved in our lifetimes. Now I don't think uh, generations uh remain in, in, in in their birth site anymore, correct?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that bespeaks why the hometown is crumbling. Who knows if things will ever be resurrected. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But the church certainly played a big role in my family. From my mother's side we lived very. The little house that we had was within walking distance to the church, I mean, and that was the major beacon there. Uh, you know who knows how things uh will continue, but I I don't even understand how, in a small town of about a couple thousand, they can continue to have multiple churches in that hometown.
Speaker 1:so and and they're beautiful and they keep them up. I mean, that was the other thing that amazed us.
Speaker 1:I mean the churches are just impeccable, like you said you know, when we were in capricota I think there's maybe a thousand people in that town they only have the one church. I think that I that I know of um, but it was beautiful, I mean with flowers everywhere. I mean just, uh, you know, you wouldn't, I guess, being american, we don't, we don't, we can't relate to it, but they still have this, this fervor, you know, to keep the churches going and to make them look beautiful. And, uh, I had to speak at one church and of course, nobody knew what I was saying. They had to translate.
Speaker 2:Uh, oh, you did it in english yeah, but it was after mass and nobody laughed yeah, so I I think a couple of things that I think the respect still for authority and especially, you know, the tradition of the Catholic Church, is huge. And then, secondly, it makes you think these people are barely making a living, don't have a whole lot of money, but yet will continue to contribute significantly of money, but yet will continue to contribute significantly. And you know, you can see it, they'll go around, you know, with not anything fancy on, but they will make certain that they contribute to their parish and that's commendable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's commendable. Yeah, and that's commendable. You know, I, we in torito, the, the, the priest gave us, you know, a tour and he was given the history of the church and all of that, and I don't know. I gave him 50 euros or something, like he didn't want to take it and I said, you know, father, let's give it, there's probably a family who could use this. And he said, okay, you know, and then he took it.
Speaker 1:He didn't want anything, but I said, uh, you know, I'm sure somebody, you know, there's somebody in in torito that could use the money, and and uh, and yeah, and you know the traditions, you know three, four, five hundred years, they're still doing the same thing. Uh, we weren't there, but this year, christmas, one of the people we met they have it's called the night of the bakers in torito and guys walking down the street very loud voice, saying things in bodies, and immediately I was taken to my grandparents and I said, like my grandparents probably heard this, you know, a hundred years ago, sure, and it just. You know, maybe I'm weird, I don't know. I have this fascination like I belong there somehow.
Speaker 2:But I mean, I do too. I would walk through one of the last times I was there several years ago, and we would walk through the cobblestone streets in the older section of town and that's where our house was, and you would still see the little elderly ladies still dressed in black. It didn't matter Someone may have died, not necessarily months ago, years ago, but they would be dressed in black and they would have a black kerchief over their head and they would be seated on their stool doorstep and they would be opening up dried beans, cutting different vegetables. I mean, where do you see that? You know, and this was as recent as a few years ago. So it's amazing Things that were done perhaps 50, 100 years ago still continue to be done in the same fashion ago. Still continue to be done in the same fashion. Uh, you know, those things are totally, totally, totally remaining embedded in my brain.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and we were in a town outside of naples, so it wasn't a tiny, tiny town. But, um, the driver said to us, he said you see this, this stands with the vegetables and fruit and everything. And I said, yeah, he said they don't need refrigerators because everything is gone by tonight. Tomorrow they get more.
Speaker 2:Well, sure, Well, doesn't that amaze you how? You know if you had any meal. And certainly we're known for our culinary attributes. But the taste of any food there is so authentically diverse because they're made from the fresh vegetables that were perhaps picked a day or two prior. In your household you don't see those. I mean, things are picked in California, you know, a week ago, when they were green, and the taste just isn't the same. I mean, they're fresh, in that due respect, but not the same at all.
Speaker 2:So, one of the things that my non-Italian wife wound up noticing we stayed at my cousin's house in the center of town and, of course, on any given day, you get one of the local vendors coming with their little truck in in a little square and they'd have their little speakers and they would wind up announcing what kind of foods or or trinkets they were selling. And and my wife was amazed she says what's going on? What's going on? And I said well, that's how they sell their goods. You know, it's not only the little uh fixtures of stores that remain there, but they will be vendors that will come into the little square and announce whatever they're selling, uh, once they've made their sales for the morning afternoon, then they go on to the next town. So something you know that we're not really accustomed to, other than you know. Some places have little farmer's markets that come in, but a little different thing and it promotes camaraderie, it gets people out of their households. Just a different, different, different concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, I still remember here I don't know if it was like that in Long Branch I grew up in Queens, but I still remember the the vegetable fruit man in the truck or you know, just vegetable stores and butcher stores. I mean there's one here or there now, but not like you know, like we were growing up and that's one of the things. We lived in england in the 94th through 96 and even by then we didn't have it here anymore. But you would go into, you would go to the high street and there would be a fishmonger and there would be a butcher and and a vegetable place and every. They were just starting then to get the big, big supermarkets. You know, we got to, we got to kick out of the supermarkets in Italy because they're not. They're not, like you know, like a, like a a shop or something like that.
Speaker 1:And they don't. And they don't I mean they, you know they'll have a deli section and they'll have some bread and stuff like that, but not, you know, not like it is here, and it just popped in my head the pastry shops. My God, oh sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I remember I had an uncle that lived in Naples and when we would visit their home, and certainly they lived in a building and my uncle, excuse me, had a little tobacco store, the tabacchini, and he loved spaghetti with a clam sauce. So of course my aunt would go out of her way and we would, we would accompany her and she would wind up buying from one of the fishmongers on the street, not in a store, and you would hear her say not hear her, but the mongers ubeesh, ubeesh, which is, you know, neapolitan slang for get your fish, get your fish, and I mean sort of a little different than what we're accustomed to, right, but yeah, yeah, all those things that remain vivid in your mind, even though they were, you know, 50s, oh my god, no more. Like 65 years ago, unbelievable, yeah all great experiences yeah, yeah for sure, and that.
Speaker 1:And you know, like I said before, that's why I tell people you don't experience italy. It's great to go to rome and to florence and venice and those places for the art and and the tourism bit, but unless you go to these little towns, you don't really understand what it's like to be italian.
Speaker 2:Agreed absolutely, because a big city is a big city, you know well the city's like anything else.
Speaker 2:I mean, as, as my, my relatives would always tell us, you know, if you go to rome during the month of august, you're not going to see Italians per se, because they all go to the country. You will see foreigners from all over the world in Rome, you know, and that bespeaks other cities as well, not just Rome, but I did have cousins that live there and they would be in the mountains or a seashore resort during the summertime, especially during the month of August, because virtually all Italians take off, if not all of August, parts of August, right, different ballgame.
Speaker 1:The first time we went to Rome was when we lived in England and we went in August. There was, there was nobody there.
Speaker 2:It was great.
Speaker 1:This last time was like nuts. But then we went from Rome to Sorrento and everybody was in Sorrento.
Speaker 2:Correct, because it's a seashore resort or the Amalfi Coast or, you know, positano or Capri, any of those places. You're absolutely right, but you would see a lot of the Italians from the cities and the hometowns in our little hometown, and that's when our hometown blossomed during the summertime. But then come after the September feasts in the different towns. Certainly something worth experiencing. Did you ever have that opportunity to experience the August 15th feasts?
Speaker 1:We experienced in Sorrento. They had La Tavola de San Stefano, st Stephen's Table, which we saw them setting up, and we went into one of the little shops there and we asked about it and I said is there a festival or something? And they said yes, but it's just food, you might not be interested.
Speaker 2:And I said no, we don't you know we don't care.
Speaker 1:Well, one thing we found out was that there was just this mad rush for all the food as soon as they opened up the stands. We were trying to act like civil. Of course we didn't want to insult anybody. The Italians are just making this mad dash.
Speaker 1:But you know, what really bummed me out about that trip now was that I didn't know that my father's first cousins were alive. They were and they would have been. I mean, we met some of them, just you know, but they were in their 90s, but I didn't know. They were in Torre del Brecco. I would have went there. And he has cousins in Taranto, in Puglia, and, like you mentioned, one of the younger ones owns a tobacco store. I didn't know this back then and every time I think about it I just get so bummed out about it because nobody ever said you know, oh, you're going to Italy, you know, the cousins are there, we have cousins there.
Speaker 2:That's a shame you know the cousins.
Speaker 1:We have cousins. That's a shame, yeah. And and my dad's first cousins, no less, and he had mentioned to us once that he had family in Torre del Greco, probably in the you know, the 80s or something like that. And we went in the 90s and I didn't think, I didn't even think to ask, you know, uh, and when we went there, everybody was just so, so great and and wonderful it was really, it was really um special to meet them and know that they was, the family was still there and close family, no less, you know, and I think that's one of the differences in in our ethnicity, we do find family to be pretty central, you know, uh, so I, I, I understand what you're getting at and there was this.
Speaker 1:There was an immediate connection.
Speaker 2:Yep, it will happen. Yeah Well, you'll have to get another opportunity to go over.
Speaker 1:Well, we want to go over again, but I think this time we need. We haven't been to Florence or Venice or Lake Como or any of those places.
Speaker 2:Really, if we go next year.
Speaker 1:We're going to go there.
Speaker 2:Can I tell you, florence has got to be one of my favorite, and just because of the culture, I mean, it's something that you won't experience. Rome is too overwhelming, it's huge and it's over the top. But in Florence you take your time and I recommend that you do get guides to help you out, because they'll take you around and they'll show you things that otherwise you would have no idea or would take you forever to discover, have no idea, or it would take you forever to discover and just get little snippets of it. And then also to go out in the suburbs of Florence, because there you can appreciate and you can see exactly why Florence became what it did, because it's kind of in a almost in a basin, but by far Florence is one of my favorite select that dialect to become the national language of Italy, so it's just spectacular. I mean, the resorts are great, don't get me wrong. I love Positano, I love Capri, I love Ischia, but Florence is just number one.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and that's what we said. I've been to Milan for business, but I really didn't get to see that much, other than walk past La Scala and see the Duomo and things like that.
Speaker 2:But can I tell you, and that's all you really pretty much need in Milan, because it's just a huge manufacturing city, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, my wife will like it. She'll like going into all the shops and stuff like that. I'll find a place to park myself in a cafe or something like that.
Speaker 1:There you go there you go park myself in a cafe or something like that. There you go, but I also I also have connections to the d'este family and and gonzaga and those, so I know there's some places up there I'm sorry which families, uh, d'este and gonzaga, um, they're um medieval families that I was able to trace back my roots to, so, uh, so we try to go to some of those places too while we're up there. Well, nick, this has been great fun. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:I've enjoyed it as well and I will bring my, my little book on Wednesday. I'll upload some pictures as well. And it's been fun, it's been fun. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
