Italian Roots and Genealogy
Echoes of Our Ancestry: A Journey Through Italian Heritage
Stepping through the cobblestone streets of my ancestral town, I was embraced by whispers of my past, the tales and traditions of my Italian heritage echoing around me. Now, I invite you to join Jerry Taverna and me through a riveting journey of discovery, from sulfur mines in Sicily and old family stories from Monopoli become living chapters of our rich collective history. Jerry unveils the profound impact his ancestry has had on his life, which led to his involvement in Mike Cavalieri's film premiere, an homage to the struggles and triumphs of the Italian spirit.
With laughter and a few unexpected confessions, we recount the joys and follies of childhood, the remarkable work ethic inherited from our immigrant families, and the deeply resonant experience of setting foot in the very places that cradled our forebears. Our conversation weaves through the fabric of Italian life, from the nurturing embrace of family meals to the importance of preserving our cultural roots against the relentless march of time. We also explore the significance of our naming customs, a reflection of identity and lineage, as we navigate the sometimes humorous, sometimes poignant implications they carry.
Our exchange culminates in a heartfelt reflection on the Italian-American experience, touching on the poignant legacy of Italian POWs in Boston and the enduring bonds of community within cultural organizations. We also celebrate the courage of friends from the St. Joseph's Society, embarking on a new chapter as restaurant owners in Sicily, demonstrating the magnetic pull of our origins. This episode is an ode to the threads that weave the tapestry of our family histories, an invitation to explore the profound connections that shape who we are. Join us for an auditory feast that promises to nourish your soul and perhaps inspire you to seek out the stories within your own lineage.
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Farmers and Nobles
Read about my research story and how to begin your family research.
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Stepping through the cobblestone streets of my ancestral town, I was embraced by whispers of my past, the tales and traditions of my Italian heritage echoing around me. Now, I invite you to join Jerry Taverna and me through a riveting journey of discovery, from sulfur mines in Sicily and old family stories from Monopoli become living chapters of our rich collective history. Jerry unveils the profound impact his ancestry has had on his life, which led to his involvement in Mike Cavalieri's film premiere, an homage to the struggles and triumphs of the Italian spirit.
With laughter and a few unexpected confessions, we recount the joys and follies of childhood, the remarkable work ethic inherited from our immigrant families, and the deeply resonant experience of setting foot in the very places that cradled our forebears. Our conversation weaves through the fabric of Italian life, from the nurturing embrace of family meals to the importance of preserving our cultural roots against the relentless march of time. We also explore the significance of our naming customs, a reflection of identity and lineage, as we navigate the sometimes humorous, sometimes poignant implications they carry.
Our exchange culminates in a heartfelt reflection on the Italian-American experience, touching on the poignant legacy of Italian POWs in Boston and the enduring bonds of community within cultural organizations. We also celebrate the courage of friends from the St. Joseph's Society, embarking on a new chapter as restaurant owners in Sicily, demonstrating the magnetic pull of our origins. This episode is an ode to the threads that weave the tapestry of our family histories, an invitation to explore the profound connections that shape who we are. Join us for an auditory feast that promises to nourish your soul and perhaps inspire you to seek out the stories within your own lineage.
Start for FREE
Farmers and Nobles
Read about my research story and how to begin your family research.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
This is Bob Sorrentino, from Italian Roots and Genealogy, and be sure to check us out on Facebook and our blog and our newsletter and our great sponsors, the Adolce Vita, italy Rooting and Abietivo Casa. And today I have a great guest from the Boston area, or the New England area, jerry Taverna. So welcome, jerry. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Bob. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:No, my pleasure, my pleasure. So we have a mutual friend, mike Cavalieri. When did you meet Mike?
Speaker 2:We do so in person, it would have been back in late September to 2023. We kind of coordinated the premiere of his movie about the sulfur mines of Sicily in the north end of Boston, about the sulfur mines of Sicily in the north end of Boston, and I kind of spearheaded that whole thing, mainly because it's in my family background. My grandfather was a child worker in those mines and you know, I think when you have that in your family history it kind of, you know, resonates with you and you gravitate towards anything that includes that subject content and you know, Michael's.
Speaker 2:His first independent film, returnato, was about going back and finding your roots and all that Again very interesting to me because I'm kind of in the middle of all that with with my own family history, having family there in Italy and and all that. So the second film really resonated, again because of the closeness to this with my grandfather. So we brought him into the north end of Boston. We had a fantastic premiere over there in a really cool location in the basement of St Leonard's Church, which has been there for 150 years the anniversary is right now and it was built by Italian immigrants. Just a really, really cool story.
Speaker 1:So now did you know from stories from your grandfather that he worked in the soulful mines.
Speaker 2:So great question. My grandfather actually passed when I was a young boy, so the stories all came down through my dad, my grandmother and my aunts. Many of my aunts are still alive. I have three aunts still alive, my father's sisters and, um, you know, they still remember a lot of those stories pretty well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's you know. And you know, until until Michael really made the movie, I never really knew that much about it. So one side of your family is from Sicily, right, and how about the other side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my dad's side comes from a small town called Riesi, sicily, kind of south central, famous mainly for the sulfur mining economy there goes back to the probably the mid-1700s, uh. But my mother's family is from uh monopoly, which is a small town just south of barry, right on the coast. Uh, funny enough, I think michael's wife, uh her family, comes from the same kind of area yeah, my, my mom's family too.
Speaker 1:My mommy, my grandparents, were born in torito, not not far.
Speaker 2:Yeah yep, yep. So I, um, I, I took a trip through italy when I was eight years old. My dad took us for a whole summer through everywhere you name it planes, trains, automobiles. We've been, you know, full three months there. Um, when I was eight, I remember a little bit of it, but not a lot. I finally got to go back about four years ago, just before COVID hit, and I took my wife, my mother and my mother-in-law and we made a couple of key stops.
Speaker 2:We visited family and stayed with family, which is what we wanted to do. But my mother has a sister, one sister who was left behind. In the late 50s the entire family moved, immigrated to Boston, actually to Utica, new York, initially to a farm. You know they had a sponsor, my grandmother's brother, and that's where he was. And then eventually they moved to Somerville, massachusetts, just north of Boston. So that's kind of you know, that's kind of the background. But I had one. She had one sister, an older sister, ada, who stayed. She had just gotten engaged and she's still there. She's still alive. We stay with her Beautiful, beautiful woman and you know her family's there. My cousins, my first cousins, were in close, pretty close contact Periodically. We talk quite a bit.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of the connection you know yeah, so now were your parents born both them born in italy, or were they born? That's right, they're both born in italy, oh cool both parents came over.
Speaker 2:Uh, my dad came over when he was about 16, 17, right to boston, landed in south boston, actually, which is where, uh, the people from the community had already settled. And that's typically how I think it's done. When you know you're looking for a place to go and you're in Italy and Sicily, um, you go to where you know. Some friends and relatives have gone and have been relatively successful, so that's what they did.
Speaker 2:Um, but um you know, like I said, my aunt Otter is still there and she's in her early 80s, mid 80s, right on the coast on in that Boulia region and it's just just gorgeous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know I, I miss it. Every time I think about not being there it makes me crazy. I want to go back so bad. So what brought? So what brought your parents here?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. So I don't know that they had a choice. In my dad's case, he was the oldest of six kids at the time. From what I understand again, my grandfather was someone that worked in the sulfur mines as a young boy seven years old or so is when he started working in the mines of mines. As a young boy seven years old or so is when he started working in the mines. To try to you know and this is something I try to work on when I have time, but to try to learn more about that history, like, how long did he work in the mines? To the best of my aunt's recollections, he worked in the mines until you know, throughout his entire adult life, until he eventually immigrated to Boston, and that includes during the war. He was because there was so little work there. I'm not sure why he didn't get drafted into the Italian army, but he ended up going to Germany to work in the mines I'm not sure which mines, probably the coal mines maybe, but you know. So he was in Germany during the war.
Speaker 2:My grandmother, who was just a phenomenal influence in my life, she extremely strong woman, obviously independent. She had her own fabric store in the North End of Boston. She sold you know yards of fabric and people you know, old women would come in and make curtains and dresses and stuff and that's what she did. She's actually pictured in some of the old historic North End books. She was there for many, many years, worked into her into her 80s.
Speaker 2:But some of the coolest stories that my aunts tell are really involving during the war. My dad was five. He was born in 38. So he was about five years old during the bombings and he remembers distinctly having to hide under tables during the bombing. But my grandmother was notorious for this story is really cool. She would bake bread throughout the night. She would stay up all night and bake bread because she had a brick oven and my aunts distinctly remember the story. I called both of them that I speak to regularly in the last couple days just to confirm some of the stuff. But you know she would bake bread throughout the night and she would either sell it or give it to the American soldiers and along with some wine and they would. You know they created this sort of relationship where my grandmother would get tipped off when the bombings were coming in to turn all the lights off. No candles Basically don't give them any signs that there's any sort of people there and in return she would give them fresh baked bread and homemade wine.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, you know, my uncle was there. He was left behind and he eventually came in like 1950 with his whole family and my cousin told me a similar story. Where she was I think she was about 12 or so during the war and they used to. Torito wasn't bombed, but they could see Bari being bombed and uh, they would. My aunt would gather up all the kids and run into the fields um, where they felt I guess it was more safe. I guess they figured if they were going to bomb something they were going to, you know they would bomb the town. But they were lucky and my uncle never went in. He was in the army before the war but I think he had at least three, if not four, children when the war started, so he didn't have to go into the Italian army because he had the children.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was one of the things they looked at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, apparently so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, apparently so. Yeah, because he, I want to say he was probably in the army in the mid-30s, just before everything started, and then when he came out he wound up marrying my aunt and yeah, it was because he had I know he had at least three by that time and he may have even had more. So, yeah, so he didn't have to go in and he may have even had more. So, yeah, so he didn't have to go in. But I would guess maybe a grandfather, because maybe they considered the mining exempt, because they needed the workers in the mines.
Speaker 2:And if the Germans needed them? I guess you didn't have any choice, right, exactly, exactly. Again, that's a real question mark in the history of you know, going back.
Speaker 1:So do you know how many years he was in Germany?
Speaker 2:I don't, no, I don't, that's something. Again, I'm hoping to go back to Sicily and do some investigation. We do have a which is really cool a family tree that was put together by a really good friend of my dad's in Sicily. So my dad, you know, grew up there until he was 17. He went back periodically, I mean he would. He was a carpenter in Boston, uh, in the union.
Speaker 2:He also owned his own deli, an Italian deli, uh, in Somerville that he, he opened up with my uncle, um, just after he met my mom and you know they started having kids uh, maria's Italian cold cuts in Somerville, and it was there for many years, right on Winter Hill, and that really brought that's where you got to kind of see the appreciation of what he was all about, because you know, you hear this all the time, but you know where he came from and the scarcity of, you know, food. There's food and opportunity, let's say. So he was really appreciated to be here, number one, to be able to, you know, earn a living. I mean, you work as much as you want and that's what he did. His, his mindset was he worked seven days a week and I was, I had one brother, he was not really so on board with working seven days a week. You know he liked to relax a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Um, I kind of gravitated towards my father I wanted to help him as much as possible and that meant, you know, I basically traveled around the whole eastern coast of boston doing side jobs with them aisle work windows, you name it, um, and he would do work for people that he sold food to in his store typically, right, he knew all these people and it was all Italian cold cuts. And then if you didn't speak Italian, number one forget it. And if you couldn't slice the mortadella and the prosciutto extremely thin, like razor thin, these people would just you know. So I was lucky enough. They opened a second deli in Medford when I was in college in the mid 80s. So I worked side by side with my uncle, tony. They both owned a second store and it was the same thing. There was still enough of a clientele Italian American clientele that that wanted fresh sliced cold cuts. They wanted a small Italian grocery store. So you know, that was a really cool thing to see and but, but the food was the biggest thing. Like you walk into that store and it was buckets of olives. It was a wheel, cool thing to see, but the food was the biggest thing. Like you walk into that store and it was buckets of olives, it was a wheel of Parmesan cheese that you know.
Speaker 2:We learned how to crack open and it was the prosciutto. And you know, when there was a prosciutto shortage when I was a kid, as an example, there was an issue I think if you look back on it it was probably late 70s, early 80s you couldn't get prosciutto from Italy because they put a ban on it, something to do with me coming over. So my dad found a farm in upstate New York and he made his own prosciutto and we had we had it must've been two dozen prosciutto hanging, you know, cured in salt first, with cinder blocks on them and then hanging in our basement for months, you know. And our friends would come over and this is what they would see. They would see homemade wine set up, you'd see prosciutto hanging. They had never seen any of this stuff. You know, we had a bidet in our house as a young kid and a teenager. Wow, that's something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the funniest stories is my parents were very, I would say, liberal in terms of their views on. You know how much oversight they put on their kids. So, and I was the last one, so I got kind of free reign to do a lot. So let's just say that I had a lot of wild high school parties where almost the entire town would come over, and a couple of them one was Thanksgiving night. The package doors closed early in Boston at that time so there was no more booze or liquor to be found. So somebody came up with the bright idea and that was me to go downstairs and crack open the homemade wine, which wasn't quite ready yet. It was made in September.
Speaker 2:Anyways, fast forward to the end of the night. Some of the girls got sick, throwing up all over my mother's rug, and you can imagine the end of the night. Some of the girls got sick, thrown up all over my mother's rug, and you know, you can imagine the rest of the story. But the bidet was the funniest because the girls, most of the girls had never seen this appliance, if you will. And so there's a million kids in the house. I get, you know, I hear all the screaming and I go in there and one of the girls had turned it up full blast.
Speaker 2:And it had taken off one of the girls had turned it up full blast and it had taken, taken off some of the plaster in the ceiling Right. And you know, the final nail on the coffin in the story is my mother and father walked in just as we're trying to clean up the mess, you know, and there's eight kids in there and we'll get towels and ceilings kind of partially destroyed. And here come my parents walking in, but they really they took a. I couldn't believe how well they took it. Put it that way, you know I would have been dead.
Speaker 1:I would have been dead, my mother, my mother could. She could find something out of place or a spot on the wall yeah from 20 feet away. What happened happened?
Speaker 2:there? Yeah, it's, you know it was interesting. Like I said, my parents would often just leave for a couple months. By the time I by the time, you know, my brother was a year old and my sister was two years old, so by the time I got to about 16, 17, they said these, these kids are old enough and we can go to Italy now for two months if we want to. And that's what they did, and it just, you know, one year she left her mother, my mother's mother, to stay with us.
Speaker 2:You know, from Monopoly, didn't speak a lick of English. So, again, one of the funniest stories is I was 16, out drinking too much at a party. I think I had gotten sick or something, and I was taken home by the cops. And so he has this nice police officer, brings me up to the door and you know I'm not in great shape Knocks on the door and here comes my grandmother, you know, kind of a large old Italian woman comes to the door and doesn't understand a word, and the cops explaining to her that I, you know, was doing some bad things that night and she doesn't speak english, so she says to me italian I don't understand what is he saying, jerry and I I explained to her.
Speaker 2:Listen. This is simply it's just an old parking ticket, no problem, it's a simple misunderstanding. And she stops nodding.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, and the police officers, and that's how it ended I guess of all of the story is like great to have an italian grandmother that doesn't speak english at times, yeah, at times oh, that's so funny.
Speaker 1:That's such a funny story. Um, yeah, I vaguely remember my grandfather having the wine downstairs. Um, he was kind of winding down. By then, my, my, um, my mom's dad, uh, because my mother was the next to the youngest, so by that time, you know, I guess, when I was, you know, seven or eight or something like that, he, he was probably already well, late 60s or something like that. So he was, he was kind of, you know, winding down. Yeah, so they had the grocery stores and he did the other stuff too.
Speaker 2:And on the weekends, if he ever had a day off, we were doing projects around the house, I mean, you know, major renovation projects that he would just start and we did them and we got them done over time. And just the way he was Again 20, it was almost like 24 seven, he had something going on. It was like he knew. You know, it was almost like he knew he was lucky to be here and he didn't want to waste any more of his time.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah. That's something, that's something. So now you've you've gone back to have you gone back to both Puglia and Sicily, to the hometowns and such great question.
Speaker 2:So I haven't been back to Sicily since I was eight years old and that's my next trip. Michael keeps yelling at me saying what are you waiting for? What are you waiting for? Uh, but I have four kids, so they're all adults now. The last one is in college, so we got about a year or two to go before we're um, you know, free and clear to be able to do all the things we'd love to do, put it that way.
Speaker 1:So you don't leave them for three or four months at a time not yet.
Speaker 2:Plus, we both have jobs, my wife and I. Well, yeah, that's it um, so what so?
Speaker 1:uh, so I mean you're so close to it. I mean I found out that my dad's first cousins were still alive when we went two years ago, which I hadn't known. But you know for people listening because I always tell people you need to go to the hometown what is it like when you go back home?
Speaker 2:So it's a great question. Like I said, I'm really dying to get back to Sicily. I do have cousins there. There's a cousin I have it would be my dad's cousin's kid, my grandmother's maiden name, right and he owns a butcher shop in Riesi, right on the town square, the piazza, and it's called Oliveira Butcher Shop and you know, I've been in contact with them and you know we've talked on Facebook and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But you know, when I go back, I'm looking forward to going there and I know there's going to be a bunch of people that you know I'm related to that I've never met before and it's going to be, you know, an interesting time and I'm looking forward to spending the week there, but that's in my future. Four years ago we did go back to Monopoly and it was. You know, it really was amazing. My, my aunt, still has her apartment that she has very close to the water, so we were able to stay with her. My wife and I, my mother-in-law, my mother, swim in the ocean where my mother swam as a young girl.
Speaker 2:You know, and all my uncles go back and you see pictures all the time. But until you're there and you appreciate the place. And then you see old Monopoly, which is an old part of town, where they all grew up. In my great grandparents apartment they, they picked it out, they showed me where it was and you know, I just I recorded so much when I was there and just really appreciated everything but the um, you know, the food.
Speaker 2:Uh, they have a house in what they call Campania, which is right the countryside, but in Monopoly it's. It's about a five or six minute drive from their house. I said, how is this the country? But it is. It's like a big open field. With the way the laws are set up, they can't have the structure that's there. If you call it, a house has to be for agricultural purposes. So they've got a big plot of land, maybe it's a couple acres, but they can't put up a home unless they go through all these zoning change type steps, if you will. So they kind of enjoy it. They can still sleep there, but it's kind of one big open room or two big open rooms.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's interesting. I didn't. I didn't know that that's, that's something. So it's almost like, I guess, what we would hear like here, like a campsite with with a bungalow or a cabin or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's big it's. It's probably you know, 1500 square foot house structure, if you will, but uh, and it has a fireplace and a kitchen and you know places to sleep and stuff, but it's more like open, big, open rooms and they put the bodies on.
Speaker 1:So did they farm? You know, back in the day, were they? Were they farmers?
Speaker 2:I don't think so, um, my uncle was in the um trucking business so he was on the road quite a bit. But this is, um, I think it was an old family piece of land and they have olive trees, prickly pear trees, uh, almond trees and all that kind of stuff. So they maintain it, they keep it, they keep it going and, um, you know, it's just a place.
Speaker 1:They go periodically from time to time, just you know second hand and you know, who knows, maybe centuries ago, that they, you know they were active in in that kind of that kind of stuff. What I found amazing there is when we went into calabria, in the town, um, way up in the mountains, that you know they're still making their olive oil and their wine and their their uh, capicola and things like that. It just blows your mind it does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've started following quite a few people in both regions to see some of that stuff. You know, and it's really cool. My two daughters are, you know, 34 and 32, and they both went back recently on their own and stayed with my aunt and met their cousins and they, you know, they went on to see the whole area and the whole region and they went to a local farm and same type of thing, the cheeses they have and just everything is there and it's homemade and it's, you know, just incredible to experience on your own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I, you know I don't think people realize the freshness of everything over there until you actually have the meals. And you know I've talked about this before the Italian food is not Italian American food by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly my father's cousin. So just shifting over to the Sicilian side of the family for a minute, my father's family. Really, it's a little bit of a sad story, but my grandfather and his sister, uh, were the only two children to survive out of um 10 kids. So there were eight, eight kids. And I only know this because my uncle, tony, who passed away, uh, recently.
Speaker 2:He kept a list. He was a fanatic about dates and you know he would light candles on everyone's birthdays and the anniversaries of their deaths and all that kind of stuff. But he had, he had a list of all the kids' names and so they were born first my, my grandfather's sister, was born first. Then he was born 1907 timeframe, I think. And then after that there was a succession of eight children that were born in again 1920s timeframe give or take, you know, plus or minus five or 10 years and all eight of them passed away. I'm not sure why I mean again, that's something I'd love to look into in a lot more detail and research. All eight of them passed away under the age of about three or four.
Speaker 2:Many of them as infants, you know, and under the age of one. My aunt, my uncle Tony's aunt Teresa, you know she's a nurse and she's very passionate about this too, which is a really cool story, because she's an Irish woman from Somerville who ended up marrying my husband, my uncle Tony, and she actually speaks a little bit of Sicilian and she cooks. I mean, she cooked for him, she cooked tripe for him, she cooked fava beans, you name it. She cooked all the stuff he loved and it was. That's just really cool to see.
Speaker 2:So, but that story, that story of you know, just imagine living through that, as my grandfather was. You know, I have that photo I sent you, where he's 14, 15 years old and his sister is in the picture and his parents and there's three other small children there that had passed away eventually. But what's really striking in that image and I think it's from 1920, and I just found that picture probably a month ago, when I was going through an old hat box at my aunt's house, my old grandmother's house In that picture one of the small children down below has a cigarette in his hand and he's no more than three years old and he has what looks like knee protection, you know, and old clothes that you would imagine he needed, because that kid probably worked in the mines, you know, and they used the small children in the mines because they had these small tunnels. They had to put a big sack of sulfur rocks on their back and they had to crouch and get through these long tunnels. And you know, crazy 110, 120 degree heated condition.
Speaker 2:So you know, that's kind of just imagine coming through number one, growing up in those conditions, number two, working in those conditions as a child, and that's what you're expected to do to help support the family at that age. But then imagine a brother and a sister growing up and watching eight siblings, you know, be born. You know you enjoy their company, you get to know them, you become to love them, and then eight of them pass away in succession. I just can't imagine the kind of you know what that does to a person, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and that's, I mean just so many and and altogether like that. That's, that's mind blowing. It really is. Did you, did you? Did your dad miss it? Did he ever say that he missed Italy?
Speaker 2:Oh, constantly yeah.
Speaker 1:He he.
Speaker 2:That's all he spoke about. You know he spoke about a lot of things and he loved to talk about all sorts of different subjects. He was very much self-taught, very bright guy on everything national topics, technical topics you name it regional topics but he constantly, you know, food was a very central part of what of who he was. And again you saw that and he opened a deli and he wanted to bring the foods that he loved and grew up with in Sicily, in Italy, that he knew, to the people of Boston, in Somerville. That he that you know he dealt with all the time and he got to know so many people you know, um, so so that was a big part of what he did, but he would often.
Speaker 2:We have a grapevine in my mom's backyard, um, the garden on one side of the house, a grapevine that's been there for, you know, since 1971 when he bought the house. It's one of the first things he put in. It provides great shade for a summer afternoon. You know my dad's house is about five homes from the beach in Hull, massachusetts. It's just about 30 minutes south of boston, um, and you know he would just all he wanted was to have family and friends around him, enjoy a great meal, listen to italian music.
Speaker 2:Literally that's the only thing that made him happy, and you know when, when we weren't able to go over with the kids on a sunday, for example, you know, really you could tell it really bothered him. So when he had had that everything around him, you just you could tell everything, fate, all his troubles went away and he would sing and he would, you know, talk about all these different things, but he often talked about the food in Italy, just how great, everything was better in Italy. Put it that way, and we my wife would joke about that often, you know everything was better in Italy, put it that way.
Speaker 1:And we, my wife, would joke about that often, you know, Well, I think it is, my wife has some, but I, I just, I just love it there. And you know, my, my maternal grandmother was the same way. I mean she, she had nine children and 23 grandchildren and that's that was her life. I mean, like you said, Sunday, going over there, and you know, a smile as more grandchildren showed up, her smile would get bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's all it was. It's as simple as that is all it took. But you know it's. It's funny, we? I know everyone talks about this a lot, but even with my family, my kids, it gets harder and harder to get everybody together on a weekend and to understand that, hey, listen, sunday you really should be putting everything else aside and we should be having a big meal. So and I'm I feel a little bit of responsibility in that too, because I have to take the lead and you know, try to. You know my mom doesn't cook as much as she used to Phenomenal cook, I mean just phenomenal and she's slowed down quite a bit. So my sister and I are trying to. You know we try to schedule a lot of those family events as much as we can to keep everyone connected, you know well, you know it's hard that everything's, you know everything's so spread out now and there's just, you know what?
Speaker 1:I was growing up and I'm sure when you were growing up, everything was closed on Sunday. There wasn't anything to do on Sunday, you know, there were no malls, there were no shops, there was no shopping. So you know I kind of miss those days. You know, back then it, you know, I don't, I don't want to say it seemed inconvenient because you don't know what you don't know, but it was just Sundays was set aside. Not that I'm a big church goer or ever was, but it was set aside for that. It was set aside to be with the family and we were at my grandmother's Probably almost every Sunday.
Speaker 2:Yep, you kind of had to be, and then as we grew up, it was my mom and dad's house, but then every once in a while we had to go to this grandmother's house and then that grandmother's house, and it became tougher and tougher as we got older. You know, it's funny, you mentioned the church thing. I just um, I had an uncle. One of my dad's brothers was in a wheelchair. Uh, he was kind of a legendary figure in south boston, uh, frank taverna, and so he had cerebral palsy.
Speaker 2:Um, there's an L, it's called the L street bath house. It's right on the beach Carson beach in South Boston and he was my grandmother's home is right there on L street, so he was a fixture for decades in that area, but he passed away about two years ago and he was a. His passion was the St Joseph society in Boston, in the North End is a small religious organization that was created from the sons of Riesi, sicily, literally my father's hometown, and so my uncle was a past president, my uncle Joe from East Boston, and you know, over the years, we.
Speaker 2:We always attended events and they had big kind of balls where you would get a whole table and everybody would dress up. You know that's what my dad and mom did get a whole table and everybody would dress up. You know that's what my dad and mom did with all their friends as we were growing up. But anyways, long story short, I ended up joining that organization about a year and a half ago, and it's a religious organization and St Joseph is, you know, the patron saint of the church, the patron saint of the working man as well. Um, the patron saint of the working man as well, and uh, same thing, same with me. I'm not a huge church goer, but I've begun to, um, try to improve that.
Speaker 1:Put it that way. Yeah, and I just recently joined the italian club over here. I don't know why I waited so long, um, but you know it's, uh, it's funny because you know there's a pledge that they open with a prayer, and there's a pledge to the american flag and there's a pledge to the italian flag and it just, it just transports me back, you know, 60 years, when people did this stuff all the time exactly and, uh, the way I look at it, I'm literally I did on my own, this was my decision when my uncle died and I kind of dragged my sister into it because, you know, I knew she would have to do it because family reasons.
Speaker 2:She, you know she's not super involved, but she does help out quite a bit and it's good. I think it's just good for you overall, just for all those reasons, like you said. So I think if you lead by example, eventually other people will follow. I mean, it's been a year and a half now and I think it's trending in the right direction, you know, and to me it doesn't matter, it's just something I enjoy. I like being around these people, I like the religious aspect of it, to be honest, and I don't know a lot about it.
Speaker 2:So I'm learning a lot every day. So it's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know.
Speaker 2:I learned my wife's mother's family is from Shaka in Sicily, and I found out a couple of years ago that there's a huge contingent of Italian Americans that come from Shaka, also Massachusetts, which is the kind of the fishing capital of Massachusetts. There's a famous statue right on the coast there.
Speaker 1:Tremendous population of Sicilians from Siaka there. Yeah and I, and yeah they do. I know they do a big, a big thing every year in August. I keep promising, tommy, I'm going to get there, but it's so hard to get there.
Speaker 1:It is One of these days I'll get there. But yeah, they apparently I forget what they call it, but they have like a flying angel or something like that that comes down and then all of that kind of stuff and it's a big deal. You know, and that's the one thing that you know. When you're in Italy, there's all that stuff going on all the time. You know, when you're in Italy, there's all that stuff going on all the time. You know, and my mother's town and I don't know if it's all of Puglia, it's just this town, in Torito, but they have the Baker's Night and it's the 23rd of December. So you know, I don't know the whole story, but I'm guessing. Well, the Baker's probably baked for the day before, you know, christmas Eve, so they can relax on Christmas or whatever.
Speaker 1:But it started out with somebody shouting and bodies, you know, like a loud, boisterous kind of guy. And I said to somebody I said, you know, I envision my grandfather being there and being part of this, and he said, of course the whole town would turn out. You know, I envisioned my grandfather being there and being part of this, and he said, of course the whole town would turn out. You know, a hundred years ago, when your grandfather was in his 20s. You know that's what they did. Everybody was there and you know, when you see that I get goosebumps. And when you see that kind of stuff it's hard not to feel connected, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, can we talk about the language a little bit? Yeah, sure, sure, yeah. To me it's fascinating when I meet people who you know, they start to talk about their Italian-American heritage, which I appreciate and I love, and I kind of soak it in, right, I encourage it, if you will. But one of the first questions I always ask is you know? Number one is where do you, what does your family come from? And you know, right then that that one question it says a lot about where people are in their lives, because you know, I couldn't answer that question at a certain point in my life. Right, and I think you have to care, you really have to care, and you have to ask your parents questions and your grandparents really just want to know all that information. And some people do, and some people haven't just haven't gotten to that point yet and you can tell that, oh, somewhere in the air, I'm not exactly sure, and I'm like you should know exactly where your family is from in italy, just the town, like go to google map, you should know that cold.
Speaker 2:But uh, the language is another piece and I, I, I, um, I often get ridiculed for my italian speaking abilities, but I'm pretty good, I think I'm pretty good, but I, the problem with me is I have this uh horrible mix of sicilian and barisi barisi, right, uh, you know, and they're both really tough languages, very, very difficult to pick up and understand from, if you just look at basic Italian. So, you know, I had my grandparents on both sides didn't speak any English at all, none. And then I had my parents who spoke half and half all the time in both dialects, depending on who they were talking to, and so, and then they talk to each other in both dialects as they're who they were talking to, and so, and then they talk to each other in both dialects as they're cooking dinner, and it's just us at home. So I, you know, I think your brain picks up on it and you know it. Just it stays in there, but you have to want to. It's like a muscle. You have to. You have to work constantly and I, and I, you know, I do, I do it a lot, even in my own head.
Speaker 2:I'll just, you know, at times I'll just have like, if I'm thinking about something, I'll try to do an Italian, you know, and I'll have conversations with my mother, and sometimes one dialect, sometimes the other just to kind of break her chops. You know what I mean, and she'll give me a hard time too. But anyways, I was curious if you spoke at all.
Speaker 1:No, I don't. I wish I did. I've tried a few times to learn. I'm trying again.
Speaker 1:You know, I grew up hearing mostly about Ace, because that's where we were usually at my mother's family's house and I thought that was Italian all those years until, you know, maybe I was in my 40s or 50s when I realized they weren't speaking Italian. They were speaking about Ace, which is different. In my 40s or 50s, when I realized they weren't speaking Italian, they were speaking Barre, which is different, but my father spoke Napoletan and my parents used to fight all the time over who spoke the proper Italian and he was speaking the dialect of Naples and she was speaking the dialect of Barre. But when we were there last year and we were in Puglia and I asked the driver who was from there, I said say some things in Italian and say some things in Bades. And you know, not even close, not even close Calabria.
Speaker 1:They sang this song for us called Amandja Kappa, which is about the goat's head, and it's a whole song about goats and things like that. And I said could you send me the lyrics? You know, I'd like to try and learn it. It was only a few chords and when I got the lyrics, I was like holy cow.
Speaker 2:This is like the only language I've ever seen in my life yeah, and again, it's both like there, there's some people I follow in sicily, there's some, actually some friends of my dad that I still am in contact with over there that have helped them out over the years, right, and they've, um, like I said, one guy put together a whole family tree that goes back to the late 1600s, which is is just amazing to see. You know, uh, the Taverna name in that one little small town. He got all the information directly from the church, you know, and he was able to confirm dates of birth and dates of death and marriages and all sorts of stuff. Um, so it's really cool to see. But, um, you know, one of the things I hope to do when I go back is to just dig a little bit deeper and really, you know, understand more.
Speaker 2:My grandfather, my dad's grandfather, my great grandfather, rocco Taberna, was a grain of cutter, a relatively successful guy at that time. He did some artwork for the church as well. I think he designed the altar and, and I've seen documents on that and stuff like that. So that's one of the things I'll go back and see. But you know, that's one of the nagging questions I have is how does a guy like that end up having to put his firstborn son to work in the self of minds. As a seven-year-old boy, you know what I mean I wonder if they know.
Speaker 1:You have to wonder if they, if they had a choice or not. You know who, who knows?
Speaker 2:I'm sure that's what it came down to. You know, I'm sure that's what it came down to. But you know, I talked to my dad over the years, you know again, he was born in 38, just after the war, post-war Sicily. You know, just imagine the. He was put to work, probably at 10 years old, but in a carpentry shop, and he kind of brought his next youngest brother, tony, along with him, I think at one point, and they were very young boys, but I think that's where he got his passion for carpentry. So when he came here, you know, at 16, 17, you know, they started out as pressers, pressing clothes and, you know, ironing shirts and and all that. But eventually he got to do what he loved, which was, you know, he got into the cop in his union and he just, you know, he did all sorts of really cool handiwork.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm actually, I have a background as a builder. I consider myself a cop in the first. Uh, my background is engineering and that's only because my dad, you know, when I was a young kid, pounded it into me. He said you are going to go to college, whether you like it or not, and he just preached education, education. You know what I mean he said you do whatever you want when you're done, I don't care he goes, but you are going to get college education he goes, otherwise I'm going to hang you up in that garage by your feet.
Speaker 1:So um, yeah, and I am the guy from my hometown. I didn't know him back in a day. He's about 10 years older than me. Uh, his family owned a local pharmacy, um, where I grew up, and, uh, his, uh, I believe it was his great-grandfather. When he came from italy, he was, he was in the jewelry business there and here he painted on the ceiling of the kids' bedrooms like microscopes and stethoscopes and medical books and told the kids you're going to be doctors.
Speaker 2:And he left it there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he painted it there, so they'd see it every day. Yeah, when they went to bed, that's what they saw in the ceiling and they and the family, you know, doctors and pharmacists and you know so it was just, you know, pounded into the, I guess, for lack of a better word, yeah, but, but it worked, you know it worked, um did yeah, and uh, you know, that's something that that you know.
Speaker 1:I always say you know my uncles and stuff, they weren't, you know, they weren't famous or they weren't, you know, but they were, they were all hard-working, uh, wonderful, you know, men, my aunts and uncles, and gentlemen, they were gentlemen, yeah, exactly yeah yeah yeah, and you know it, it irks me sometimes and and I know you've probably talked to michael about this it irks me when I see these shows, uh, where they just show, just, you know, fighting all the time at the table and and and all of that kind of stuff. We didn't grow up like that. We. We, you know everybody just loved being around that table. There was nothing better in life than that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, they would have their little disagreements and stuff like that, but absolutely yeah, but no, you're right and and the way I I describe it is you, even as a young kid, I, I, just I wanted to be sitting at the table, that's right, listening to them all and in the conversations and animated right and some, like you said, sometimes yelling and arguing a little bit, but they talked about so many different things and you know it was just you had you wanted to be there. You couldn't wait to get together again and be at that table to hear everything you know yeah, my mother's family.
Speaker 1:My mother's family, like I said, there were nine children. They would get together once a month. You know there was no medicare or any of that junk back then. They would get together once a month and throw in, you know, five or ten dollars each to help, you know, pay my, my grandmother's, medical bills. She lived with my aunt and uncle, but they would all chip in and it would be at a different person's house every month.
Speaker 1:And us, as kids, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old, we would be the bartenders and you know my uncles would give you a dollar tip or something like that. And that was great. But the best part about that, when I became 18, I got to, like you said, I got to sit at the table with them when they had these meetings. I wasn't, I got to be part of it. You, 18, I got to, like you said, I got to sit at the table with them when they had these meetings. I got to be part of it. You know I would come home, you know, maybe 11 o'clock and they'd be in full. You know 11 o'clock at night, they'd be in full swing and I got to hang out with them and be part of that table, you know. So I grew up as the you know, the gopher, if you will, and then they just bring you in when you hit a certain age, you know, okay, now you get to sit with us, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's. There's a lot of things I really want to touch on and you know, while while we have the time here, but just to wrap up the language piece of it again, I think it's stuck with us. When we, when we were eight, I was eight years old, my us, when we, when we were eight years I was eight years old, my brother was nine, my sister was ten after a three-month stretch in italy, we came back and I'll never forget this. My mother's mother picked us up at the airport and you know a lot of conversation all in italian, and she was amazed at how well we spoke. And of course I don't remember it that well, but you know, you just imagine you have three months and you have no choice but to speak italian with everybody. So, um, and of course I don't remember it that well, but you know, you just imagine you have three months and you have no choice but to speak Italian with everybody. So, um, and of course you lose it over time. But the the point.
Speaker 2:It really clicked with me on on the Sicilian side of things, because I had a lot of conversations with my grandmother and my aunts and my uncles and my father's side, and so I knew the, I know the language pretty good, boy. Is it difficult, it difficult to write, to read, to understand? There are a lot of difficult words. But it really clicked with me when I think I was 16, maybe 17 years old, and I sat down and I watched the Godfather from start to finish, and particularly the Godfather 2 as well. When they go back and there's a lot of conversation, a lot of the, a lot of the Sicilian language in the Godfather is not subtitled, and so especially the scene in the restaurant where he shoots the two guys, I don't think there's any subtitles in that at all.
Speaker 2:So you know anyone watching that movie, you either understood it or you just kind of had a guess at what they were saying, and that's that's when it clicked. That was that's when I said this is, this is my dad's life, this is exactly my dad's language, and it's highlighted in the opening scene to the godfather too. When, when the mother's grieving over her son's body, right, and she says in really thick accent and it sounds just like all my father's friends, female friends, right, that that I've known over the years she says uh, figu mio figu, right, and figu is son in italian, it's figlio, right. So that's, those are the very slight differences in the languages, but if you look deeper into sicilian, it is really difficult and and there's a couple of people that are really good at it that have just their whole lives, and it's impressive when you see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know it is interesting and that's like I said when we went Puglia and I heard my grandmother's tongue. It's different, you know it's really cool to be able to do that. You know my grandmother's tongue, it's it's. It's different, you know it's it's really cool to be able to to to do that, you know.
Speaker 2:And you and you miss it. It's funny, and even with my dad I don't have a lot of video of my dad speaking. Right, I do have some, but then you know my dad passed, say, eight years ago and and you know to hear the voice again is what brings them back to me.
Speaker 2:So when you have, if you have video, old, even eight millimeter film videos, you know it can help you in the grieving process, right, and you same with my grandmothers, right, it's so great to be able to hear their voices again. I have a few select videos where you can really just hear them talking. You can hear that thick accent, right, and it's uh, it's just heartwarming to see that and hear it. But, um, one of the things I really wanted to touch on while again, while we have the time, because I I think I probably have about 10, maybe 15 minutes um, so, where I'm from in boston, very historic region, uh, the town I'm in, hull, is a small peninsula, it's a beach community and it it was the most forward-leaning fort during the Revolutionary War. So Fort Independence and Hull was the main lookout for Boston Harbor when they were looking for the English ships at that time period. So, again, it's really rich in history. And I came across a really cool old I think it was a podcast and I posted about it on Facebook. But the Italian POW experience is very much rooted in Boston and I learned that when I came across this story and again, it's South Boston where my dad landed, his family landed Carson Beach in South Boston they created a pen, if you will. They didn't want to imprison all these guys. It was like 1945. Technically they were still POWs, but they were kind of using the Italian POWs for labor in Boston to do certain projects. They were really good at that stuff. Right, they worked like animals, I imagine. So what they did is they created these pens, kind of outdoor pens on the beach, and allowed these guys to, you know, have a place to assemble. They couldn't really leave the pen, but they could stay inside and they ended up. As you read through the stories, trouble started happening. They were playing soccer, they kept kicking the soccer ball over the wall, they were getting in fights with the locals, they were doing inappropriate things with some of the females in the area and eventually there was a murder. Somebody got stabbed and they had to do something with these Italians. So what they did is they found a place where they couldn't get in much trouble and that was a small island just off the tip of Hull. It's called Pettix Island and it was actually used by Leonardo DiCaprio in the movie he did about the Insanus Island. I forget the name of the movie, but they filmed some of that stuff there and it's it's a really cool island and anyways they created a pow camp on that island. Problem solved, you know. Now they, they would basically have to swim off the island.
Speaker 2:The reason that story really clicks with me is there's an old italian guy in hull two. There were actually two brothers, I think, once passed away and I know the sons really well, but they had done a piece on Hull Community TV probably 10, 15 years ago. And so here's these two brothers. They're probably in their late 80s, early 90s. At this point One has passed away.
Speaker 2:But when they were young boys their dad was the main contractor in town.
Speaker 2:He did all the cement work and know um, very well known, very well respected, and he did most of the work for the, for the town and all the people in the area and he was doing some work out on that island.
Speaker 2:He cut a deal with town officials where every sunday and they talked all about this in a sit down in an interview, but he cut a deal with the to every sunday he would go and take a group of these italians back to his house for a day of relaxation a sunday dinner, take him out for a ride in the car, let him drive the car a little bit, let him call home to italy, you know all that kind of stuff. Just give them a basically a day with someone in the area where they could kind of feel like they were home again. You know, and I just thought it was a really cool story and I heard that story, you know, many, many years ago and then I came across this podcast very recently. So I just think that's a really cool story that kind of highlights the role Boston played and in particular, the town I live in and that whole Italianian pow story, you know yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:How many were there? Do you know? Like how many prisoners I don't know.
Speaker 2:And that that's probably an easier thing to to look back on history wise. I'm sure there's documentation on that, but I'd also love to see the names. Imagine you go through the list in the logbook of names and you know who was here, because probably, like you, you know you hear stories about certain relatives came way earlier. You know, I've heard about certain relatives that came very early and didn't like it and went back that's right and then ended up coming back again later on.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think I think in my, I think in my um mother's family, I think they had planned to go back because they left my uncle there. He was like three years old or something like that, and they left because world war one was breaking out. My uncle, my grandfather, had been in the war, so, uh, I think they planned to go back, but then I guess he started working and and, uh, they started having my grandmother was pumping out kids, so probably got impossible to go back, you know, yeah, and my uncle then got. He he couldn't come over on his own, uh, and he got caught up in the quota thing. So, you know, he wound up having to go to canada with his family for like four years or something like that. Um, and even though he had four brothers who served in World War II for the United States, that didn't matter, he still had a weight, yeah incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, when you see, it's interesting to me because I didn't realize growing up that when I was nine or 10 or something like that, my uncle's family had just gotten here, not that much before, and of course they all spoke Italian, they had a lot of the Italian accents and everything like that. And you know know, it was only later on that I realized that, geez, they had just got here. You know, uh, uh. So you know, interesting in that respect, and my, my uncle uh, hadn't seen his parents in like 35 years and he had never met his brothers and sisters that's a great, that's incredible story, yeah yeah yeah, really is um and uh, you know it, you know in.
Speaker 1:In the end it all worked out. But I'll tell you one other funny story about him before we go. He obviously they were farming, he was a farmer. I mean he, he, uh, farmer and I and he, I think he had something to do with training horses or something like that. So we had this big family reunion thing, probably in the early seventies or something like that. I guess my uncle was like late sixties and my cousin had a couple of horses. Well, my uncle goes and jumps on this horse and all my aunts are like you know, his sisters, his three sisters, are panicking. Oh my God, giovanni is on the horse. And all my aunts are like you know, his sisters three sisters are panicking. Oh my god, juban, he's on the horse, he's, oh yeah, and he's riding his horse.
Speaker 1:It's nobody's business, you know so they didn't know anything about horses, but he was, you know, he knew horses and he knew how to ride and it was so funny watching them all panic over it.
Speaker 2:That is funny.
Speaker 1:And his name was Giovanni. Never heard him going back to the language. Never heard the name Giovanni Giovanni. That was his name, giovanni, that's how they called him. Giovanni, not even Giovanni Giovanni.
Speaker 2:Giovanni.
Speaker 1:That's the way they said it, jovan, and my mother's uncle was Uncle Dominic Zimenguch. What's? It called Zimenguch, zimenguch, zimenguch. Zio Dominic, translated in Bahrain, is Zimenguch.
Speaker 2:So I think everyone has an uncle dominic. Yeah, it's all the same. I have an uncle giovanni who's still a lot in his he's 90 and, uh, just north of boston. But I have an uncle dominic as well and he's in the boston area, um, and his nickname what they call um dominic's in in my same region, by the way is mimino.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've ever heard that? Yes, I've heard, I've heard that. Yes, I've heard, I've heard several people. Sometimes you get mimo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets shortened up to mimo or mimi or mimino, but that's a pretty cool nickname uh, yeah, and, and it's, you know, it's like my.
Speaker 1:I learned this recently. Um, you know, it's like my. I learned this recently that you know they always, my cousins always referred to my father as little Nicky, because that's what my grandmother would call him, because his grandfather was Nicola, and I didn't realize that they would always use the diminutive form for the for the grandparents. So you would never call, they would never call my father Nicholas or Nicola. In my grandmother's house he would be little Nicky or Nicolino because out of respect, I guess, for the grandparent, they put that diminutive on there. You know, and you know I learned that my mother's mom, her name was Maria, but I've also heard her referred to a lot as marietta because her grandmother was maria. So you know they, they, you know they, they did that and um, the names.
Speaker 2:The names are funny um my legal first name. I don't know if michael told you this. It's not j.
Speaker 1:No, he didn't tell me that.
Speaker 2:It's Gerolamo and that's after my. You know, the custom is my sister was born first. She got named after my dad's mother. Then my brother came, he was named after my dad's dad and then third kid, I was named after my mother's dad, Gerolamo. And there's five in the family, all my cousins same with Rosa, my, my grandmother's name. This you know. There's five, six, seven Roses in the family.
Speaker 1:So Well, yeah, we had Luigi's and Francesco's and my mother's family. My brother was. My grandfather wanted my brother to be named Ubaldo after him because my my, he was the first son and my mother said I you know. I can't you know I love you, but I can't. I can't name my son Ubaldo. It's just, and that doesn't even translate into anything.
Speaker 2:I know, right, that's a tough one. I've never heard that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and my cousin Joe, who legally, I think, changed his name. He was Ubaldo, but he was Di Maria because he was the second son. And you know, my mother told my grandma, well, you don't have Ubaldo, here's Ubaldo. And he said no, it's Sorrentino. You know, it's supposed to have Ubaldo Sorrentino.
Speaker 2:Funny stuff yeah. That's the way it was right, I think I, uh, when I saw michael's first film you know had come out, and I just started to look into his background a little bit, you know um I think, I actually, you know, researched some, some of the stuff on youtube and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I think I probably came across the video, the interview he had done with you a few years back. Um, you know, I could just see, I could tell he was kind of a genuine person and uh, you know, we've had a lot of conversations um, like I said, we brought him into boston for the premiere, to bring his premiere of the sulfur mining film, uh, to boston in that location, which was really, um, a unique experience, to say at least that he still talks about it quite a bit. Um, but I think he's, you know he, he has plans to go back to sicily really soon and, uh, you know, we've talked about a couple different things but, you know, I've got some ideas from a building perspective, you know he's, he's got some ideas from, obviously, the documentary perspective, um, and who knows, you know what I mean, we might end up doing something at some point together, but, uh, at the moment I'm, uh, you know, my wife and I both work, I'm in the construction business up in the boston area.
Speaker 1:So, um, you know, no major changes planned at this moment I know I'd love to go there and spend, you know, extra time there. You know I, you know my wife go back and I go back and forth on it and, um, it's just, you know it's, it's just a whole different world there. I, you know it's like any place else that have it has its challenges and everything else, but you know, when you sit on one of these coastlines and the mountains are behind you and the seas in front of you and it's just that peaceful, calm way of life, uh, and you know, the food is great. Uh, and I just saw that italy outlawed uh, uh, laboratory created meat. So no, laboratory created meat in italy.
Speaker 2:They did yeah, yeah, I just saw that the other day yeah, they're keeping uh with their policies.
Speaker 2:I think I think they feel like they're best and I think they're right. You know what's funny is my, my sister, has a um gluten allergy, and I joke about it. But you know, we grew up pasta bread, you name it right. She never had a problem and in the last 10 years, 12, 15 years, let's say she's had a major problem with gluten, like a lot of people, not just her, obviously, but uh. What's crazy is she can go back to italy and she goes back every couple of years and she can eat whatever she wants and there's no problems at all because of the crap we put in.
Speaker 1:Everything. That's what it is. I mean, even the milk. Right, remember, milk used to last three days. Right, used to get it delivered to the house. It would be in the glass bottle and all that Used to last a few days. Now you buy the milk, it lasts like two and a half weeks or something like that. They have to be putting something in it. That's probably not healthy for us, but that's what I love. Like I said earlier, when we were in this small town in Calabria and they were bringing everything out, I said I've never tasted ham like this or cheese like this, or the olive oil forget. I mean, our olive oil is crap compared to what they give over there.
Speaker 1:It's not even in the league, right.
Speaker 2:I had mentioned the St Joseph's Society. There is a couple that has been. They're regular members at the society for many years, you know, and in the last six months they talk about a bold change. They packed everything up and she has relatives there and she goes back often, right, but she is opening a restaurant in Sicily I think it's Sirocco, Sicily. So I'm kind of watching that as she goes. A restaurant's like that close to opening. I think it's going to open in early April, but you know, there's a couple just very close to retirement age.
Speaker 2:But you know they've decided to take that plunge and it's interesting, it's admirable. It's not going to be easy, I'm sure, but give them a lot of credit for making that move.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that takes guts. That takes guts. I keep saying I'd open up a ham and egg restaurant in Italy. Yeah, because I don't eat ham and eggs in italy. Yeah, uh, and if nothing else, we sell it to the tourists. Um well, listen, jerry, this has been fantastic. I love talking to you. Uh, appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2:It's been a lot of fun, for sure thank you, I really appreciate it too, and, um, I look forward to seeing this when it's all wrapped up.
