Rhythms of Resilience The Italian-Australian Immigrant Experience

Embark with me on a heartfelt odyssey that traces the waves of Italian immigration to Australia's sunny shores, anchored by my own family's saga. Hear how my Calabrese and Roman roots intertwine with the broader tapestry of the Italian community down under, including the brave journey of my grandfather in 1952. The stories of skilled workers and those who came with little but hope in their pockets are all part of this rich narrative. Revel in the art of storytelling that keeps our diasporic heritage alive, and join me in honoring the profound connections these tales foster within our families and communities.

Navigating the complexities of being Italian-Australian is akin to a delectable dance with identity, culture, and heritage. I'll share the personal odyssey of visiting Italy, embracing the language, and upholding traditions, while shedding light on the vibrant regional diversities that define us. Whether it's grappling with the charm of dialects or celebrating our ancestral lands, the conversation will wrap you in the warmth of the Italian-Australian experience, offering a glimpse into the colorful mosaic we contribute to Australia's multicultural landscape.

Turning the page to personal passions, I'll recount the leap from familial ties to the crescendo of a solo music career, detailing the thrill of live performances and the intimate connection with my audience. Beyond the melody lies a deep-seated reverence for genealogy, where family lore meets meticulous research. This melodic and historical exploration crescendos with the anticipation of future insights from genealogy expert Bob, who promises to enrich our understanding of family history. So, tune in and let the rhythm of our stories and songs resonate with the beat of your own Italian-Australian heart.

The Italian Australian Podcast is a place where we celebrate the rich traditions and stories of Italian heritage in Australia. Join us as we explore all things Italian Australian'.

'Inspired by The Italian American Podcast, brother/sister duo Lukas & Josie D'Aqui from Perth, Western Australia are here with their very own Italian Australian Podcast! Join them for weekly episodes covering a range of Italian Australian topics including immigration, food, traditions, language and much more!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:33

Thank you, bob. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. That's right. We started relatively not too long ago I suppose it was back in August last year, so it was roughly six months ago and we do weekly episodes and I'm thinking some of your listeners are tuning in. Bob, you've been kind enough to let me post on your Facebook page, which I need to thank you for as well. It's always good to reach new people, especially over in the state, so I think some of these guys are listening, which is really exciting to know that there's people from all over the diaspora that are hopefully tuning in. Right, there you go. Very interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:36

I think a lot of us have similar experiences and similar stories. If anything, you guys are a little bit ahead of us and maybe it's a bit of a sneak peek about how we sort of might be in a generation or two, with the sort of immigration starting a bit earlier in America compared to us in Australia, which is what I sort of. It's what I enjoy the most, really, because it gives me a little look into how we might be once we hit the third, fourth, fifth sort of generation. Okay, so my dad's family's from Red Bull Collabria they came. My grandfather came about 18 months before my grandmother and the first child, which was my uncle, so my nono come in 1952. They're from a little town called Citadzano, which is Comuna di Cosoletto, part of Red Bull, collabria. And then, yeah, 18 months later, in 1953, my nono came with my uncle Matt, and a little bit later on Mum's side. That was 1960, they're from Rome and my mum was born in Rome, so she was two and yet she immigrated, obviously with the two, my two grandparents.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Okay, just say my self Yep lot went to Canada as well.

Speaker 1: 3:19

I think we're kind of on par with Canada in terms of, I think, how many. I think Canada might have slightly more, but in terms of percentage of population we're pretty much on on par with those guys. And I feel like it's around about the same time period that the Italians sort of left Italy for Canada, compared to Australia as well. So I feel like we can relate pretty closely with those guys in Canada Big time. We speak about this in our podcast, the Fairbier. We have a lot of colour brezi, a lot of Sicilians. Obviously, same as you guys in America, it's predominantly or Southern. We do have definitely some pockets of immigrants from the North, but yeah, very much predominantly Southern. I think in order would probably be. I mean, australia's a big country, depending where you are definitely over in West Australia I think it's mainly Colab Rezzi, sicilian, maybe upper Sicilian next, but yeah, lots of people from the South. Well, fortunately, particularly down in Colab Rezzi, there wasn't as well documented through your podcast. There wasn't much opportunity in terms of work.

Speaker 1: 4:34

My family were farmers, didn't have too much happening really. So on the Dacquoise side they basically all left to go to even Northern Italy, australia. Well, that was it really then. I mean into France. So I went up to the border of France, a town called Ventimiglia, I think some of my grandfather's siblings actually crossed over, went into France. Some stayed on the border town just on the Italian side, and I think he only had one sister who stayed. So I think there was five of them, a majority of them kind of left just because of the lack of opportunity.

Speaker 1: 5:04

On my mum's side my grandfather was a good mechanic, so he actually came to Australia as like a skilled worker, so he was able to. I should have checked with mum before this. I think they may have paid for their tickets out, I'm not 100% sure, but I think he was kind of sought after to come to Australia being a mechanic and obviously there was a lot of work in that field. So their journey was probably a little bit easier, knowing that they had work when he was going to arrive and that sort of thing, and he was able to get a good job, sort of straight up, which I suppose just shows a difference a little bit sometimes being from central or north, compared to the sub-annu's. I think.

Speaker 1: 6:09

Yeah, yeah for sure, my nono on the Calabresi side. He was a great storyteller so he loved to tell all the stories. You had to work out which ones were true and which ones were maybe fictionalised a fair bit. But they say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. So it's always great listening anyway.

Speaker 1: 6:26

But he would speak a lot about Italy and he went back heaps of times I think maybe 10 times or so. He loved going back because he come out and he didn't have any other family in Australia. So he's immigrated with my nono and my uncle, who's three, but none of his family, none of the Dakwis at all, came. So he had obviously his in-laws and a lot of family from my grandmother came, so his wife's family, which was, you know something for him, but his own actual family, like I said, they all stayed back in Calabria or they sort of left and went somewhere else. So he would often go back and visit. He even got the boat back. I think in the late 60s they weren't flying yet, so he was that keen to sort of get back and see his family and parents and stuff. He took the ship back and back again. So you know it's a long journey. It was a 28 day journey.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Oh, I just, I mean he, to be honest, I don't even think he minded the boat so much. He was really sort of the life of the party sort of type person and very jovial, very social sort of person, loved life. He lived healthily up until he was 95 and a half. He passed away in 2020. And yeah, he would just tell lots of stories about just the family environment and he obviously had a big family back in Italy and extended family and all the cousins and all his friends and just the way life was tough, but I think that real family kind of environment and how they lived and you know what it's like over there, especially in southern Italy. I think he probably always missed that a little bit when he came to Australia. I mean, he was 27 when he came but yeah, he did have fond memories, even though obviously they were sort of suffering down there a little bit in terms of industry and jobs and opportunities. Yeah, yeah, very lucky. Yeah, I mean I'm 36. So what was I about? I think 33 when he's passing the last five years of his life. He moved into my parents place because obviously he's getting a little bit older, so I'd see him almost every day. I would spend a lot of time with him, which is very, very special. Yeah, definitely, I think what my take is that the southern Italians compared to six.

Speaker 1: 8:55

I've got a pretty good view here because mum's family is central to north really If you go back. I'm not sure if we'll talk later in the podcast, but mum's family is a little bit spread out as well. So her both, mum and her parents, were born in Rome but then from there they sort of spread out. So her dad's family is actually from Le Marco and her mum's family got a couple of semi-road blocks here, what we call the roadblocks. Not 100% sure on some of the origins further, but we think they're from outside of Rome and right up north and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1: 9:21

But the difference I've seen is the southerners really definitely over here seem to keep their traditions quite tight and weren't so fussed about learning too much English and assimilating and they kind of because they came in droves, they were able to keep their communities together and even though it was a Mononnel's direct family, there was a lot of other people from his town, his area, so they kind of really kept the cultures and the things they would do and spend their time, I think, the central Italians, the northern Italians, because they came in much thinner numbers and were really outnumbered, whether it was to the Australians or to the other immigrants or southern Italians. They seemed to lose their cultures a bit faster and assimilate a bit more. I think that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 10:09

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm Uh yes and no, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 10:38

I mean, there was definitely racism even through into my days and I was younger, maybe going back say roughly 20 years ago myself playing sport at junior levels and in school, and there's like still some name callings and that sort of stuff. So yeah, I suppose as the years have gone on, it's eased up and we're sort of more one now, but back in those days there definitely was some rough times, and I think Italians always were able to get themselves in though, because they were such hard workers, really good on his hardworking people. So whether there was a little bit of negativity whatever the word may have been, I think that dropped off fairly easy, because I feel like most of the Australian people accepted them quite fast and they sort of seen how hard they worked and how much they wanted to contribute to the new country and that sort of thing. However, some people still maybe never really accepted them and liked them, and it's just the way it is.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:48

Yeah, we're still definitely at that stage. I mean, in Australia, we are Italian. No one really says Italian-Australian. It may be starting to come in now a little bit and we're highlighting the differences through things like our podcast and your podcast and things where you really look at it and I've heard you speak on yours and it's kind of like we're not really Italian. We're kind of like we're Italian-American or we're Italian-Australian or we're Australian with Italian background, all that sort of stuff. So we're the same here Generally.

Speaker 1: 13:13

Someone will ask someone like myself whether you even got parents born in Italy and you just say Italian, even though you're born here. Yeah, I'm very lucky. I've spent a lot of time there. I think I've done four separate trips. Haven't been for a little while, though. My last trip was 2016 and, like everybody who was planning to go back, it kind of got pushed back and I'm actually I need to mention I'm in a bit of a time warp with your podcast at the moment, bob, because since you reached out to line up this one, I've just started listening to the whole stack of them, but I'm up to about December 2020. So I've listened to your first 40 odd. So I'm still reliving all the COVID things and yeah, well, no, they're great. When I find a podcast that I like, I just listen to it over and over. So, yeah, I started from the start. I've listened to a few of the recent ones as well, just to sort of get a bit of a recent flavor. But yeah, I'm going back from the start and just listening through. So I'm reliving all the lockdowns and how you were supposed to go and that got put back. And I know now that you have been because I've listened, obviously, to a couple of recent ones and obviously your episode that you did on the Italian-American podcast. I've listened to that one. So I know that you finally got to go and do your trip, which is awesome. But yes, no, I have been four separate times and all roughly for about a month.

Speaker 1: 14:25

I think one trip might have been a little bit shorter, but we've got so much family there. So on mom's side, like I said, she's immigrated as a child. She came with nobody. So my grandparents and my mom came, no one else came, except for my mom had one uncle who came, but he passed before I was born. But basically the whole family's back over there. So they're more like second cousins and the great aunties and uncles and that sort of thing. But you know what it's like there. You go there and it's like your first cousins and first aunties and there's no second. This and that's just full on. And same as on Dad's side there's a lot of family still there as well.

Speaker 1: 14:56

So I've been lucky to spend a lot of time in Italy and kind of do not every region and every majority, north or south. There's still a few places I'd love to see, especially now that I've dug further into my ancestry since my last trip and I realized there's a few towns that we're potentially from. I wouldn't mind to check out. Yeah, yeah, they look, they just still look good, and I think he also served as a religious sage, so I think it would be a good idea. In fact, it would come very, very fast, and so it definitely brings the people here. Ireland. I mean, it's so worth it once you're there. So, yeah, most of them just had the flights too, too long and then none of them speak English. So we've had a couple come and it's been hard for them to get through the airports and stuff and it's a lot easier for us to probably pack up and head over there.

Speaker 2: 16:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:19

It's pretty crazy. Yeah, I've heard that's great. Yes.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yep, mm-hmm, yep, oh that's good.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah, I'm lucky, particularly lucky because, mum's side being from Rome, which, like I said, there's not too many central northern Italians around in Australia, like obviously there is some, but, as mentioned earlier in the episode, there's a lot of southern, so lots of my mates actually they're all from the southern.

Speaker 1: 17:44

Maybe they're mixed they're half-coloured, half-brussezi or these sorts of things and they might not use that. It just doesn't really work. So, having Mum's family from Rome and they speak standard Italian, I've been really lucky to learn that. Obviously, learning the dialect as well, my grandfather would only speak to me in his dialect. So my grandmother on the colour-brusse side passed before I was born, which is really sad, never got to meet her. She passed when Dad was around about 10, and my nun was left with five young children I think they were all roughly, you know, 15 to two or three.

Speaker 1: 18:18

So he never wanted to remarry or do anything.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Obviously, as you know, plenty of times I'll sort of organise them to marry someone else and he just didn't want to do that. So he just raised the children by himself, super hard worker, but I suppose you never learnt any English, just working in the fields, doing all this really hard, back-breaking work. So it was good for me because I got to learn the dialect, but I'd say semi-fluent in speaking the dialect, purely because I don't speak with as many people and, like he always would say to me, don't stress too much about speaking how I speak, because you're going to even go into different parts of Calabria, they won't understand you. You're going to go outside of Calabria. No one's going to understand you. So he was sort of happy for me to speak with him in Italian, who's pretty forward-thinking in that regard. So I kind of focus more on standard Italian through Mum and the grandparents on that side, and Mum and Dad also had an Italian restaurant, a very well-known Italian restaurant in our area where I worked for a long time.

Speaker 1: 19:08

They had it for 30 odd years and we had a lot of Italian staff, a lot of Italian customers. My grandmother worked in the kitchen so I was speaking Italian every day with the co-workers and, yeah, I was lucky to learn it. Yeah, mum and Dad did. Yes, yeah, there's a lot of those ones. Yeah, A little bit. A little bit to an extent, I think.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Josie and I have tried to break this down in one of our episodes already. It's strange that kind of happened because the people who we had working in the kitchen we had, like other Italian-born people, and my dad, who's born here but very Italian upbringing, and my grandmother, but it was almost like it just kind of happened instantly because some of the ingredients were different and I'm not sure if they've seen another Italian restaurant was doing this sort of way. They just kind of tried to cater, I suppose, for maybe some of the Australian people as well, but I think it was definitely, say, three quarters Italian-Italian and a little bit Italian-Australian, but majority, I think. Over here we haven't branched off too much to a full subculture, definitely not in regards to food. Most Italian places over here you're getting food that's pretty similar to Italy overall yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Oh yeah. Well, that's an example. I think we used to put it on pretty much everything, but the menu stated it, so that's maybe one thing you can say. It's starly like Australian eyes. I'm pretty sure from memory we would just yeah, that would go across the board and all the dishes. So little things like that, I suppose. Yeah, we do over here. That definitely doesn't fly there.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Well, as you know, there's the Italian-American podcast which you feature on as well, which is a great episode as well. So basically, I started listening to that a couple of years ago and just got hooked on it, just really, really just. I really related to it, I suppose, because so many of the things I was speaking about your podcast we have a very similar experience over here in Australia, slightly different of course, but the episodes, yeah, really resonated with me. So I got my sister, josie, to listen, not together so much, but to the episodes and I'd give her a phone call and we'll sort of have a little mini episode and discuss what they spoke about and the differences over here. We're doing all this stuff.

Speaker 1: 21:55

And I was mucking around at the start because we didn't have any experience in this and I said, josie, why don't we try and do it?

Speaker 1: 22:00

And she said, nah, no one's going to listen to us and we don't know how to do it and all this sort of stuff.

Speaker 1: 22:03

So I got in contact with the guys over there and they were just super encouraging and we had a few video chats with John and they sort of said, look, I think you guys will be good, there's nothing like this in Australia. Why don't you guys come on be a guest on our show that I can sort of like hope you guys launch? So we did an episode with them and then we just started doing weekly episodes and so far it's blown us away. We get a lot of really positive feedback, we have a lot of listeners. We get a lot of really nice emails sent in every week and it's really spurring us to continue because, as you know, it is a little bit of work, but we feel like it's really important because we're kind of at that cusp now in Australia where the languages are starting to be lost, some of the traditions are starting to die off. It's a bit of a fork in the road, I suppose, which way we're going to go with the culture. We're really hoping to keep it strong.

Speaker 2: 22:50

So OK, so we're starting to get better, and hopefully we should oura thought a lot more.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Yeah. So we made a big list at the very start and I showed John from the Italian American podcast and he said yeah, I reckon you have a lot of success with those sort of ideas and a lot of them first, probably dozen or so. A lot of them was just Josie and I breaking our topic. So certain things, lighthearted ones, like the Italian Australian food and the differences, episodes like where we sort of feel we're at in terms of the language and the culture and traditions overall, these sorts of things we would have to break down. We broke down episodes about visiting Italy, these sorts of sort of generic ones but are still interesting enough to speak about. Then we just saw some people who we didn't know whether they'd be interested or not because they're real busy performing sort of comedians and musicians and that sort of thing. But we found straight away. Everyone was so lovely and so interested to speak with us and help us on this journey. So we've had a few comedians, a few musicians on, a few well known people just in the Italian community over here in Western Australia. We had dad on for an episode, we had mum for an episode, we did an episode with them, but they just got back from their trip to Italy. We also had one of our other cousins do an episode. All these people that have done different sort of things. So it's every episode has got its own flavor and basically the way we do is just reach out via email, instagram, just send a message and ask if they want to be part of the show, and so far, everyone said, yes, we've got a few big names that are coming on. That we're really excited as well, and we haven't had too many knockbacks. Really, these people have been amazing with their time. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't train him, but I did see that you were doing that. I'll definitely try and catch one for sure.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Yeah, so I'm really lucky to do music as a full time thing at the moment, which kind of happened as a little bit of an accident. I've always done music my whole life, since I've been in school, and so I worked in the restaurant. As mentioned, the parents had the Italian restaurant. I worked there out of school and I always did music on the side, so but I was doing a lot more private events and weddings and functions and that sort of thing. I wasn't trying to break into it as a full time job or really try and get into the scene. I recorded two independent albums just for fun more or less, and this is before Spotify was even around and all these things like that, where people would actually still buy CDs and it's quite sort of easy to sell the CDs and that sort of thing. I've done a recent album now, which is a lot harder because not many people listen to CDs anymore. It's all online. So I mean all my stuff's on Spotify and YouTube and everywhere as well. But yeah, we are closed the family business down.

Speaker 1: 26:28

About six years ago I think it was, and it was around about then I slowly started to get the music a bit more. I just I really just felt like I needed to do a bit more with my music and I had all these new songs that I wanted to record and people to hear. So I was lucky enough to just try and sort of get my name out there enough around our sort of area of Western Australia to now be sorry like a semi touring musician. When I say touring, it's going around sort of a three hour radius from where I live. There's a lot. It's a beautiful part of the world. There's beautiful breweries and wineries and vineyards and like beautiful, you know, hotels and bars and all these sort of venues. I'm lucky enough to bounce around and do enough gigs out to sustain myself, which is awesome. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:06

Yeah, yeah, it's lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep yeah, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Oh, awesome.

Speaker 2: 28:07

Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:27

That's a good thing about it. You can improvise a little bit. Now I'm just solo, just myself. So I play a lot of what you call the stompbox so you're using sort of drum with your foot and I play a lot of the harmonica and just acoustic guitar. So it's fairly chill acoustic folk rock, a little bit acoustic reggaotones, just mellow sort of stuff overall. But when you listen to the albums and recordings that I've done, obviously you can beef it up a bit more in the studio. So there's some lead guitar, there's bass guitar, there's proper drums, piano, you know, there's all sorts of other instruments. But when I've recorded I've never wanted to make it sound too far off. If someone's going to come to a gig and see me perform live, that makes sense. You don't want to throw in too many backing vocals and too many harmonies and you can really make it sound really big production. But I sort of rather be not too different when someone sees me. If that makes sense, I feel like that's a better way to go as a solo performer.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Yeah, for sure, alright.

Speaker 1: 29:46

Well, yeah, you get some guys like that.

Speaker 2: 29:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Yeah, nice.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yeah, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 30:24

Yeah, I mean for me, like I said, it happened like a bit of an accident really, because I had a period of time when I didn't do anything with my music because I was in between jobs when we closed down the family business and then the first time ever I've got another job so I went and worked in hospitality still, but at a different venue obviously. And yeah, it's a little bit of a weird time period because I only ever worked for mum and dad and done the family thing. So I kind of just put all my energy into that and, yeah, was focusing on that, and then I didn't do anything with the music for a couple of years and then I realized how much I missed it. And then I did one gig and then it was like something, just, you know, the fire just really went a lot again and I just wanted to do it and do it. So I kind of almost stopped that job to get a different job that would allow me to do more with the music and I was happy kind of doing 5050.

Speaker 1: 31:05

So I was doing a couple of gigs here and there. Most weekends I was doing at least one gig and working as well, and then that just kind of led from one to two, two to three. All of a sudden it was just gigs everywhere, so I was able to throw in the job and just focus on the music and then obviously had more time to record and write, which led to the last album, which came out in July last year, and so far I'm just running with it. I'm not looking too far ahead, but yeah, I'll just keep sort of keep going with it while I'm getting a lot of interest in the areas around where I live and see what happens, you know, further down the track.

Speaker 2: 31:40

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 31:53

So I'm going to go back to the video Italian roots. Sorry, we're going back to the genealogy. Well, obviously best thing ever is to go and sit with the oldest people in your family that you can. But, as I've learned, whatever they say documented all. But you need to take with a bit of course of caution, because if I took every bit of information I've been told, even if it's your grandparents telling you something, often it's not quite true or it's slightly skewed for whatever reason, whether it's their memory or you know. You just got to be careful.

Speaker 1: 32:25

But obviously asking people, I still feel like, is the best. It's a lot, as you know, easier than trying to go through the antonyte and find things. That way, if you can speak to the people before they pass and that sort of thing, definitely do that If you have family in Italy that you're able to contact and speak with. I know sometimes there's obviously language barrier, but that's also a great way because, as on, your podcast has mentioned several times how a lot of these guys don't do the DNA and they don't do so many family trees. They know in the back of their mind they know a lot of it. So if you can get in contact with some of these guys that might have a wealth of information to share with you as well. And then obviously after that, things like the antonyte and family search, and we're lucky these days that's a lot easier with the internet and people you can reach out to with online and that type of thing. So both are similar. For music, lucasdakwi music on Instagram, on Facebook it's on YouTube, spotify, basically anywhere on the internet they can search me LucasDakwi music and the podcast is similar as well.

Speaker 1: 33:34

I think the podcast streams. Everywhere you can get podcasts, I'm pretty sure it will come out. The main ones people listen on is obviously Apple and Spotify or our website at the Italian Australian podcast. But, yeah, italian Australian podcast. We're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, but, yeah, if you just type in a generic search and it should be the first one that pops up, yeah, we're going to have you, bob, on our podcast for sure, and we'd love you to speak about your genealogy research and give some tips to all the guys over here in Australia and you can share your amazing story on what you've done. So we'll definitely line that up to later in the year as well, so you can catch up with Josie then. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:26

That's right, I was just letting you. Yeah, as well.